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Posts posted by vain68

  1. Did Frank provide Catherine (I believe it was a C not a K yes?) with a secure base? I am struck by those who argue that she was the one to blame for their issues and related relational matrix....not that she is absolved from any sustained analysis, but on the face of it, let us not be blinded to the flaws of our hero...


  2. Has anyone heard of what fans of the show Jericho have done to prevent, and possibly persuade, CBS to not AX the show? Fans sent a heap of peanuts to CBS headquarters and there was such fervor on internet boards etc. that CBS has reconsidered axing the show.........if only we had done, or can do something similar for MM.......even now it would turn heads............



  3. ditto the thanks Moriarty....i guess their reviews are the reason why MillenniuM never made it past S3 and we have such wonderful and realistic shows today as American Idol, Survivor, Wife Swap, and The Simple Life w/ Paris Hilton and her friend....yeah, that was a good tradeoff..... :death:



    Great one Fourth.

  4. Well, seeing that i started somewhat of a quest...check out the scene in "Sound of Snow" when Frank visits the old yellow house and Catherine makes her way down the walk towards the gate..I have come around full circle on the subject of Catherine's role in MillenniuM..I now regret that her character was killed off at the end of S2...she has a radiant beauty that isn't going to take your initial breath away, but ever so slowly, it creeps up on you until, like myself, you realize her absence was a huge hole in S3...in her own way, and to 4th Horseman's thinking, she was by FAR the most physically appealing of the trilogy of females...Catherine, Laura, Emma....

    just my opinion...

    4th Horseman...



  5. Good day mates,

    First, I want to say that the kinetics of this board continue to impress me given the fact that MM was a three season show that certainly went unknown by many. The fact that we continue to discuss this show a decade+ later is inspiring by itself. Having had a cloud of extremely intense academic work pass over me within the past few months, I have recently had the time to begin a second viewing of select episodes of MM that I have chosen for a particular reason, as they struck me--one way or another--during the first viewing. Below is a list of the episodes I have recently re-viewed, and then I want to offer some brief commentary. Some of this commentary may have already been discussed in my relative absence over the past few months, so please do overlook if this is the case. Without further ado, the episodes I have re-viewed with associated commentary include:

    1) Pilot (parts)

    2) Gehenna

    *It struck me here that when discussing 'Legion' broadly speaking, there is always associated mention of 'numbers.' For example, during the interrogation towards the end of Gehenna, the 2nd victim clearly indicates that 'we' are only 'numbers.' Of course, the concept of numbers seems to return in just about every episode in which Legion takes a very direct role. In A Room with No View, we see the teacher talking about numbers, and how students are reduced to numbers. In Antipas, discussed below, numbers are everywhere--clocks etc. Indeed, numbers seems to be a linking concept in many episodes. Of course 666 being the number of Legion, this makes sense, but the emphasis on numbers...it would seem that there are many possible reasons/philosophies for the symbollic usage in many MM episodes, particularly those in which Legion is featured prominently.

    3) Force Majeur

    *Interestingly, it struck me that this SI episode is very much an introduction into where SII went, and I thought this episode was very well done. Particularly moreso the second viewing around. Clear linkages with SIII's 1&2 episodes scream out at me, yet I have not re-watched these quite yet. When Jordan spins the planets at the end, is this a harbinger of her insight?

    4) Amanesis

    *Another fantastic episode in my opinion. In light of the recent release of the DaVinci code, I have reason to review this episode (I will say that I have not seen, nor intend to, the DaVinci code per se). I thought Catherine and Lara played off each other well. Interestingly, at the beginning of this episode, Lara's vision of the angel in her jeep---I saw this more of creating a dualism in that whereas some have the gift of seeing evil 'or feeling its presence' some have the gift of seeing 'good' or some other entity. Interestingly, in this episode, Lara specifically reiterates this when she tells Catherine (and I do not directly quote) that 'Frank sees evil' with his gift whereas her gift is the ability to understand something quite distinct. Indeed, we see that Lara's angel may have abandoned her later in the episode as Clare indeed I think states this. This presentation of 'dualism' inasmuch as it is both inherently present in the world as well as some having the gift to see both, are I believe central to understanding where Morgan and Wong were heading. Such was not tha far off from something like Force Majeur in SI. Another poignent piece is Amanesis is Lara's plea to not abandon Frank, clearly stating that he is alone. This reinforces the concept of the genius, the need for isolation, the lack of understanding by mere mortals. It stirred me. We see this theme played out in many movies and in many greats. I have talked about this with Rilke extensively. A Beautiful Mind is a good portrait of this. Lara as well is alone and we see this quite clearly at the beginning with her dysphoric-like smoking of cigarettes.

    5) Antipas

    *A lot of the same themes play out here as from above. Lucy as the succubus would, by default, rob Frank of his gift, since it requires isolation. In many ways, it can be argued that the dictum that priests not marry is in the same vein (at least in the CC). The play on Se7en with the pasta I thought was a little tacky, but the point was not missed. It makes sense that these themes again were prominent as Carter was heavily influenced by these pieces. This overall was a great episode, and was particularly striking for its set.

    6) Weeds

    *This was a wild-card. The episode seemed hastily done at points. Out of curiousity (and this may have already been discussed) does anyone notice that in the opening pan, there is snow on the ground, then there is not from other shots presumably on the same day. Something tells me this may have already been discussed. Additionally, during the cemetary scene immediately at the beginning as they pass over bystanders, is it me or is that Giebelhouse...it is a very quick pass, would require probably one frame right at the beginning. Aside from these pragmatic concerns, the theme of the episode in terms of 'judgment' is a theme we see repeated in many movies such as even Saw I at least (in spite of just shock and awe). Franks visions of what I presume to be of death at the beginning (or perhaps decay of persons) is quite striking and it would seem there is room for discussion beyond mere 'evil'...perhaps something along the lines of death, decay, putrification which are not necessarily directly tied to evil per se.

    At any rate,

    Excuse the lack of substance to these brief rejoinders as I am still in the midst of a modest load of academic work. I look forward to coming contemplations as the summer winds up.


  6. No longer on TIWWA. Now at The Millennium Group I hid the group, for security reasons, so if you'd like to join, please PM your email address to me and I'll invite you.

    Well, I wasn't sure, and so I looked around MDUK till I saw her name, and cut and pasted it, to be sure I got it right.

    Anybody want to correct me, and I'll see if I can change my name there?


    you should just be able to edit her name vis a vis editing your profile as you normally would.

  7. Catholics are usually known for following the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope, strictly.

    Maybe Opus Dei, or a similar sect. However, I think there is a misconception in general that Catholics are these holier than thou, Bible-bumping peoples. I myself am Catholic, but in no way would I say that I follow all the stipulations put forth the church per se. I do not take this to mean that I am a 'bad' Catholic (perhaps in the eyes of a radical maybe) but rather I think I am well grounded in my [Catholic] faith, but realize the necessity of balance, flexibility, and realism within that faith (after all, I am a student of science, etc. etc.). Faith I guess is what you make of it. I am sure some Catholics might cringe at what I have to say, others might sympathize and identify with it. I think Catherine was someone like myself...As Stranger points out, we just don't have enough character development to know for sure......


  8. I want to offer a hypothesis in light of the recent conversation on the matter of the group, and in particular to the delineation of the two themes outlined in earlier commentary and rejoinders. The hypothesis, stated parsimonsiously, is that the fractionated, often incoherent, and frequently unsupported (from a linear perspective) nature of the groups origins, its ideology, and, in particular the dynamics of the group behavior itself, are a product of the Jekyl-Hyde dualism of the producers during the cascade of seasons. What this then means, is that "Group" mysteries will never be uncovered, secrets told, and concepts ascertained. They can, however, be created. In particular, in previous commentary I have discussed my intrigue at the concept of a third faction (cf. the 'foxes'). This was only inasmuch as it applied to dynamical notions of the coconstruction of personality formation and group psychology from a symbolic perspective (i.e., the foxes being awake during a transition period of 'dawn' which might be successfully argued to be the space between attractor states in a dynamical system). What is also tacitly stated in my proposition is that the Group itself was never intended to be the protagonist or fulcrum of the series. Rather, ab ovo, Franks own psychological journey was. In the context of his family, the [Academy=Millennium] group, and his own personal struggle to understand faith through an excavation and explication of evil, of suffering, and of pain. The permutations of possible 'true' group origins, allegiances, transmutations, and ideologies is endless. As mentioned at the top, it is my view that this is a simple by-product of different production idealogies.

    It has been noted that there is a desire to understand the Group and reconcile 'true variation' to 'observed variation' across seasons (here, I am employing a psychometric metaphor). True variation itself is a latent variable that is a function of the group's members. We simply have not enough personality development amongst the group's members, eschewing Frank and possible Peter for the moment, to arrive at a systematic and reliable source of understanding the variation across seasons (e.g., Matryoshka with SII's presentation of group origins). For the moment, the assumptions we are collectively making regarding the sources of this variation are basically tautologies. In other words, they are true by definition and cannot be tested by comparing these sources to some real 'observed' variation (for example, if outlined in further episodes et al.).

    With this in mind, let me not interfere with the creativity that is and has been burgeoning at the helm of this great ship. The above are not quibbles by any stretch of the imagination, rather they are biased guideposts to illuminate further considerations about possible reasons for sources of large variation in the "Season" facet (here again using a psychometric metaphor) with regard to the group. Large variation undergirds inconsistency, and as a result, instantation of 'creative' corrective measures will be necessary to arrive at a simulated or 'Monte Carlo' type understanding of our best estimate about the true nature of the group as it was coconstructed over three seasons of exceptional, even if nonlinear and highly varied, television.

  9. Let me articulate for the record that the above post is exquisite. As much as there were two sub factions within the group, there are two themes that can be explored with regard to Millennium as a television series. The first is the journey of Frank Black a man with a special gift to see evil and to combat evil, and the struggles that this gift brings to him and his family; in particular Jordan, who is clearly depicted as sharing this gift in a rather immature form as her character was growing throughout the series. The other theme is that, basically of M&W which brought the 'group' to the forefront, while relegating Frank to secondary element, no matter how you parse it. While M&W did add elemental features to understanding the psyche of Frank Black, they as aforementioned, were concerned with the Group and developing the identity and history of it. This dualism in themes gave way, necessarily, to the shilly shally episodes of SIII which considered collectively can be confusing as noted, but considered individually can be shown to be brilliant pieces, particularly those that focused on the first theme outlined above. It is my contention that Darwin's Eye is one such episode and as noted, I will be providing a monograph on this shortly.

    I think Carter's original vision was to elaborate the ubiquitous struggles associated with a gift such as Frank's in the format of understanding evil. Here we have an underlying, tacit implication that simply 'understanding thyself' was a key elemental feature of Carter's vision. The brilliance here is that he used 'facets' (facets here can be thought of as sources of variation in a quantitative sense) of life that are by definition, in the end, oftentimes NOT understandable (e.g., the vagaries of life). For all we can break down evil, it is often nonlinear, much as Darwin's eye points out. However, nonlinear does not imply lack or order nor does it imply an absence of causation. Yet faith through the ages has been used to understand the seeming chaos around us. Yet again, a reminder that chaos does NOT mean the absence of lawful order. What drove the series for me, during all three seasons, notwithstanding the caveats above, was the desire to want to understand Frank, to understand sources of evil, to understand the intersection of Frank's gift with his relationships with both his daughters and wife. Further, to excavate Frank's own personality from the backdrop of his childhood.

    That is not to say that those here that are more enraptured by M&W's vision are any different from those that are sequestered into thought by Carter's. What it does imply however, is that there will be two rather distinct visions of how to analyze and discuss relevant episodes. While some want to understand group beginnings, group mythology, and their trajectories, others are more concerned with Frank's own journey, his gift, and the universal struggles of human life which the series depicts in fecund detail, particularly in the first two seasons, and most specifically during Frank's separation from Catherine. This resumed ostensibly in the later portion of SIII. While M & W's vision is notable for its incessant polysemous quality, I think Carter's vision, while frequently of the same ilk, was much more raw, real, and indicative of the human condition. To explore the dark side, you journey into the abyss. And one famous profiler has stated that one must be cautious not to succumb to the abyss or 'fall-in.' This "falling-in" to the abyss is polysemous in and of itself, but it is also realistically polysemous as opposed to demonstrating that Marquezian "magical realism" element that M&W were notable for.

    That said; let this refulgent discussion continue per omina secula seculorum.

  10. I wanted to add from afar that the recent smattering of postings such as this one are indeed elegant and brilliant. I have enjoyed surveying them all and digesting the comprehensive philosophies and commentaries within them. It is interesting for me to consider the outlook of the individual who offers a certain view on any relevant episode or theme, or even still a certain microanalytic piece of a given episode. Becuase of the somewhat fractured nature of the various seasons and the inchoate themes outlined in this very thread, there is rich potential for the human psyche to engender their own journey, much as we can, with our own inherent developmental histories, draw conclusions as to what lay ahead on the road for Frank and Jordan. But this reveals much about us. And I think this is exactly what CC wanted. At any rate, kudos to all involved. I'll be around the block soon with a discursive commentary on Darwin's Eye.



  11. fully accept that the changes made to S3's explanation of the outbreak stretch credibility but so did pretty much all of S2. It simply would not have worked on the most basic level to have S3 in a world where 80% of the population or so had been wiped out. As many people here have attested, Millennium is not a show that should dwell on global conspiracies and such; rather it should concentrate on Frank Black and the journey of one man struggling with his demons within and without.

    Yes, yes yes. Excellent encapsulation here. I only want to add two things. One, aspects of SII did cultivate Frank's struggle with his demons, but the conspiracy did not. Two, I thought Antipas was well done and provided further understanding into the nature of Franks demons.


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