Posts posted by BillQS
It all depends on how you define Legion. I'm still new to the Millennium mythos, but some folks automatically add any appearance of the demon icon in an episode to connotate Legion. Some folks see one pervading will behind the manifestations of Legion and others don't. I think the point of the episode is that the child was an incarnation of evil.
How closely that plays into the Legion arc depends on how far you stretch what you consider to be Legion. On the "pro Legion" side you have not only Frank's vision of the Devil, but also Lara Mean's vision of an angel. So its obvious there's a supernatural element driving the events. There's an attempt to entrap Frank, but I don't know if that is really Legion's attempt to get Frank or just the child's attempt to thwart being caught. I would think there is more to it than the child attempting to not get caught because of the "coincidence" of Jordan having a bloody mouth that added credence to Danielle's allegations.
That's stream of consciousness for you. I started out agreeing with you that Monster probably wasn't part of the Legion arc and ended up convincing myself by the end that it was. : )
Given that Lucy herself is quite literally, more than one person, does that not imply Legion? Given that the Gehenna demon seems quite iconic with Legion, and how she is linked directly to that demon in Lamentation (and the "devil" controlling his son in Sacrament carries the same iconic precedent at the top of the stairs), would you not say there are some potentially valid connections there?
Thanks Laredo for your post. I think we are actually in close agreement. I have no doubt that Lucy Butler is part of Legion in the sense that she is part of the demons that face Frank and must be, at least in Lamentation, a very powerful member of Legion as well. What I was wanting to do was to "tease out" which characters that form the Legion arc are related to each other- especially ones that might be manifestations of the same entity.
The Judge and Pepper seem to be the most congruent example of two manifestations of the same entity. I don't think Lucy Butler is a manifestation of the Judge because the MO is somewhat different- although she does represent one of the Judge's most important characteristics- which is personal vengeance on whom the Judge considers to be wrongdoers.
But that brings up an interesting can of worms, doesn't it? Just who is the Judge working for? It's obvious that what he does is objectively evil, but does the Judge consider it evil? He goes to great lengths to formally pronounce sentence over his victims and I get the feeling he operates out of a sense of self-righteousness in carrying (or having others) carry the sentences out. Other Legion entities get almost deliciously aroused by the evil they create. They wallow in the evil. That's certainly the case with the father in Sacrament, Lucy Butler in Lamentation, the Anti-Christ figure in Maranatha and the Siren in Siren.
Figuring out who the Judge works for would also do a lot to explain Samael's appearance killing the new manifestation of the Judge in Principalities. As has been discussed on other threads, Samael is not an angel (e.g. the good guys) in traditional occult literature. Yet he seems to absolutely be the "good guy" in Principalities. What if the Judge was a former "rogue" angel (perhaps fallen or otherwise) who set himself up as the ultimate Judge of who can live or die? That might explain why Samael used the names of archangels in his spell that held and killed the Judge as Pepper.
I think if we could get more speculation as to which figures in Legion are which, or work with which entities it might generate some interesting theories.
I haven't yet seen the second Lucy Butler episode, but from Lamentation, I don't see Lucy being the same entity as The Judge, but I know legion means many. To me it's obvious that The Judge and Pepper are direct manifestations of the same entity. Both of them offer Frank employment for their side (although that in and of itself is not a fool-proof way, for example Aerotech offering Catherine a job to get Frank on their side in Owls/Roosters.) I'm not certain about other direct manifestations of the same entity. The Siren in Siren offers Frank an opportunity to join forces with evil, but I don't think it is the same entity as the Judge.
I'm Bill. I've been visiting this forum for the last couple of months, even posted a bit, but realized I never made an introduction. I'm a new Millennium convert. I heard about it when it was new on Fox from a friend of mine, but never had time to watch it back then due to travelling to SCA events and other things I had going on.
I always loved X-Files so I decided to get DVD's and start watching, now. I really love the complexity that Millennium has and how it is so dark that it sometimes makes the X-Files seem like Everybody Loves Raymond.
I'm 2/3 through season 2 right now... just watched Owls, Roosters, and Siren last night.
Seems like a great forum!!!
Having watched both episodes recently... as a matter of fact I just finished Midnight of the Century 1.5 minutes ago, I would have to agree that there was no intention that the wife in Covenant had the same issues with Linda Black, Frank's mom.
At the time of Covenant I think the writers were firmly telling stories based on humankind's behaviors and problems creating massive evil. It has ties to several events where women, usually religious moral people, have snapped and murdered their children and just like in the episode people struggle to find out why.
I think it speaks to that phenomena and not the supernatural happenings that happen in Season Two.
I really enjoyed this episode myself... although maybe enjoyed is a strange adjective for such a disturbing episode. The way the prosecutor was determined to go after the daycare owner reminded me of Covenant where the Prosecutor wasn't going to let the truth get in the way of a "good hangin'!" (Ok... I realize it was a firing squad the Dad was facing in Covenant...)
Did Frank really go "too far" in killing the Polaroid Stalker?
in MillenniuM Season Two
To answer the original post, no, Frank did not go too far in killing the Polaroid Stalker. It was a murder committed in self-defense, both of himself and Catherine. While the separation of Frank and Catherine was important to the story arc for Season 2, I agree with many that it was not handled in the best way.
However, although it is Catherine that initiates the separation, there is evidence in some episodes in Season 2 that the continuance of the separation has as much to do with Frank as it does Catherine. There are intimations that Catherine wants Frank back, but Frank seems to stay apart most likely in another attempt to protect his family. (Staying close to them didn't protect him because evil was targeting him, so perhaps his family was better off if he could divert the evil away from his family to where he was alone.)
There was definitely chemistry between Lara and Frank, but the writers were smart not to have them hop into an affair. As many others have noted, Frank's love and devotion for his family is central to who he is as a character.