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MillenniumIsBliss

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MillenniumIsBliss last won the day on September 26 2013

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About MillenniumIsBliss

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    Millennium Group Old Man

What I like about MillenniuM

  • Favorite Millennium Writers
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  • Favorite Millennium Seasons
    2
  1. It would be so nice to have you here with us again, Steve. Please drop by!

  2. Hi!

    We're missing you at TIWWA! Drop by let us know how you are!

    Graham

  3. Question about S1 in general

    Nothing I can say about this except that it is out of line and a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black. I was discussing Frank's membership. If you read my early post or posts in this thread, it's clear that I don't bring up anything about favorite seasons, Morgan and Wong, etc. This thread was turned into another anti Morgan and Wong thread by yourself and one other poster, and then, as soon as anyone debates your points, you accuse them as starting what you have, in fact, started. I'm not saying you are against season two, and I didn't do anything but debate your points. It was only the accusation that I was turning this thread into something that I took offense to. The fact is that these season two bashers you speak of, make it a point to break into innocent posts and transform them into an admitted platform for their own crusades. All of your comments should be redirected back at yourself. I accept and love all three seasons, while a certain few here have a bitter resentment towards and can't come to grips with season 2 and grasp onto any kind of opportunity to bash the show. When this is done, and then I'm accused of taking the thread down that path, I do take it personally. All anyone has to do is start this thread over from the beginning to see how we got here.
  4. Question about S1 in general

    Once again, you pretty much have the same ideas as I do here, but express them more concisely and coherently. I should also mention that, while season two probably has a slight edge with me, I also loved season one and I think it's a close call. I think all the writers in all the seasons did an awesome job.
  5. Question about S1 in general

    There was misrepresentation of facts here. The claim is that Frank is a group member in season 1, and then suddenly not a group member in season two and being considered as a member. Like it or not, it is established that there are members and non members in season 1 and season 2, and it is not made clear that he was a group member in season 1. It was made clear that he was not yet a member in season two, and that does not contradict anything we see in season 1. Therefore, there is no retcon. I don't think Peter's relationship with Watts changed that much between seasons. The term mentor isn't really a good term for either season, and actions that you are referring to as mentoring are different because they were strictly investigating in season 1, and it isn't until season two that we really see Peter starting to groom Frank more for acceptance into the group as a member. Just because they didn't discuss Frank being a candidate and not a member in season one, doesn't mean they couldn't use that as a story line in season two. It isn't really discussed, and there is certainly not a scene in season one where Frank is established as a member of Millennium Group. These claims that Frank was made a member in season one are pure speculation, because the whole point of him being a candidate or member wasn't addressed until season 2. And yet, it is being presented as fact and said that Frank was a member in season one, that Mogan and Wong pulled a retcon, and that he became a non member in season two, and was changed into a candidate being considered for membership. If Frank can be compared to anyone in season one, it would be more to Jim Horn, who was said in season one to be under consideration for membership, so the "candidate" idea was presented to us early in season 1. Frank, being fairly new to the group, would seem to be closer to Jim Horn, who is also working for the group, but not yet a member, than he would be to people who have been with the group a while, such as Atkins and Peter. For a new idea to be introduced, or for the group to evolve into something more than we thought it was, does not break any continuity, and therefore is not a retcon. We see the group as one thing in sason 1, and it evolves in S2, but I don't see where anything in season 1 was made impossible or how the continuity has changed. The group simply evolves.
  6. Question about S1 in general

    That's fine, but these are the quotes turned this into the kind of thread it was turned into: "I disagree with the laren's interpretation of the piece of dialogue he points to. It was always clear to me that in S1, Frank is a member of the Millennium Group, and the Millennium Group consult for law enforcement. Simple as that. There is no chain of command, no candidates, patrons, elders or "Old Men" in S1. I agree with Zeus on this one. There were no ranks in the first season. Frank was a member of the MM group and they were consulting for law enforcement. Morgan and Wong came with the idea of an old man and of ranks in the second season. Chris Carter his view on the group was totally different. He saw them as the Academy Group, a real group of former FBI-agents who helped to solve crimes. They are interviewed on the dvd's of the first season." That's fine, a post about Frank being a member in season two or not being a member was being discussed here objectively, and was turned into another debate about how Morgan and Wong ruined the show. I still had no problem with this, but to say "please don't turn this into a season 1/season 2 is better thread", when I was not and your were, is ridiculous and insulting. And then you tell me not to take your accusation personally.
  7. Question about S1 in general

    I don't agree that Watts was not a mentor figure for Frank in season one and that this was something invented in season two. In S1, there was simply no reason for anyone to act as a higher up. It would be a professional courtesy for them to treat Frank as an equal. That doesn't mean that Frank was automatically a group member. We don't see a lot of defining of the group in S1, and we don't see a whole lot of members, other than Mike, Peter, and a few others. There is simply nothing carved in stone that season two violates. I don't agree that it was a retcon at all. I do agree that they created some new story line for the group in season 2, but not that they scrapped everything or anything that was established in season 1.
  8. Question about S1 in general

    That's absurd. You are the one who turned this into a complaint about season two and Morgan and Wong with misrepresentations of the facts, and now you try to turn the tables and imply that I've done so. "Because everyone working for the MM group is a member"? That's your explanation? What about Jim Horn. He was working with the Millennium group and was not a member. He was specifically referred to by Peter, in season one, as a person who they were considering as a member. Just because you name three members of the group doesn't mean Frank was automatically a member, or that everyone who does work for the group is a member. The logic makes no sense. Given the fact that they don't specify that Frank was a member, them making him a candidate in season two is totally valid. To suggest the Millennium group was established as an organization without ranks in season 1 is also absurd. The police and FBI organizations that these people are coming from has ranks. A normal consulting group would most certainly have ranks. Every company I have ever worked for had ranks, such as president, vice president, office manager, etc. Even a grocery store has several different ranks. By your logic, if I got a job at a grocery store and could name 3 managers, I would automatically be a manager. Nothing in season two goes against what we see in season one, it expands on it. There IS NO retcon. There is no confusion about the term consulting. The fact is that Frank was at no time specified as a member of the group in the way that the group was described and defined in season two. The group was not clearly defined in season one, and season two does not contradict anything established in season one. I still don't know what ranks you are referring to. There are members and non members. Owls or Roosters are not ranks. It makes sense that people who have been with the group longer would be referred to as senior members and that there would be leaders within the group. You're creating something that does not exist because you don't approve of the season two writers. It's that simple and it's obvious to anyone who is following this objectively.
  9. Question about S1 in general

    I agree, this is a more concise and eloquent version of my bumbling version. Well stated.
  10. Question about S1 in general

    What ranks are you referring to? In season one, we see people like Jim Horn brought to the group and referred to as a person they are considering as a member of the group. We also see Frank at the beginning stages of his involvement with the group, referring to himself and being referred to by others as doing some consulting for them. At no time in season one are we specifically told that Frank is an official member of the group and not a candidate. The writers start to expand on what the group is in season two, and such expansion is common in a show to prevent the show from spinning its wheels and rehashing the same old material. Just because somebody doesn't like this direction doesn't mean it didn't happen. In season two, we see that Frank is still a candidate, being considered as a member. Some are suggesting that he was made a member of the group in season one, and then suddenly, in season two, was not a member anymore, but was a candidate, being considered for membership. My question is, which episode in season one clearly stated that Frank was a member? In season two, the group still consists, at least to a large extent, of former FBI and law enforcement and still helps to solve crimes. They simply expand on the history of the group. Season 1 is vague about the group, and season two does nothing to go against anything what is established in season one. If someone can provide specific examples of how Frank was established as a member of the group in season one, or how the season two writers directly contradicted the season one writers, I stand corrected, but I can safely say that I wont agree with their interpretation of events. Maybe Chris Carter did have a different view of the group, but he left for the X-files and handed the project over to other writers. As far as I know, Carter didn't leave any strict instructions that the Millennium Group was not to be elaborated on or more clearly defined. The original question in the thread was about Frank's status in the group. We see in season one that there are members and candidates. We see in season two that Frank is not a member. We don't see anywhere in season one where Frank is established as a member.
  11. Question about S1 in general

    Not to be argumentative, but I guess it all comes down to the company you keep, and the kind of people you happen to associate with. I, admittedly, know less than a dozen cops, but between about half a dozen cops I know, and the people they associate with, I have to say that theology is rarely, if ever, the topic of conversation, profound knowledge, or great contemplation. In fact, among the Christians I know, theology is rarely, if ever the topic of such. From my personal experience, people who call themselves Christian may go to church on Sunday, sometimes, but rarely get into deep discussion or understanding about it, and even more rarely conduct their lives in a manner that is consistent with the beliefs that are supposed to be living by. Therefore, when someone says that "The average law enforcement agent is not converse with theology", I find it to be an accurate and realistic assessment of the way things really are. I don't, for a second, dispute that you have been exposed to a completely different set of circumstances and people, but to me, personally, Eths view of reality rings true and is my own perception of reality. Like I said though, it probably boils down to the kind of people you associate with. I do agree, however, with you assessment that Frank never became a confirmed member.
  12. Question about S1 in general

    I agree, Frank was never a group member. In season 1, he was a consultant for the group. In season two, we see episodes like Luminary, where he sits in the middle of the group members in what he refers to as the "trick bag", and is questioned by group members. This, to me, is clearly a meeting for them to consider Frank, a candidate, as a group member. From that point on, Frank's relationship with the group only gets worse. My interpretation was that Peter was chosen to work with Frank and to groom Frank as a candidate in season one, but Frank was never an official group member. Frank even refers to himself as doing some "consulting" when talking to the neighbor in the Pilot. In Dead Letters, we see the group team Frank up with Jim Horn, who is doing similar work for the group, but who Peter refers to as someone who is "being considered as a member". To me, it's clear that Frank is also a candidate who is being considered as a member in season one. And yes, welcome to the board.
  13. Funny Pic of Me

    LOL, poor Ben, I shouldn't be so hard on him. At least he is a serviceable actor and seems natural, and you don't cringe when you watch him trying to act, like you do with Billy Ray Cyrus or people like Bret Favre in "Something about Mary". I lucked out today at my local library and snagged Sixth Sense AND Changing Lanes for $.25 each.
  14. Funny Pic of Me

    Yeah, I don't why I've waited so long to see that one again. Samul L. Jackson is a great actor and one of my favorites, and Ben Afleck is good at remembering his lines.
  15. Funny Pic of Me

    Good, because she's MINE!! LOL, no, I realize she isn't the classic beauty type, just something about her, and probably her characters she plays, does it for me. Speaking of 6th Sense and Changing Lanes, those are two I need to rent again. I barely remember them, and don't remember Toni in them at all. Both are films I saw at the theater and haven't seen sense.
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