Owls/Roosters

[ethsnafu]

was Frank an Owl or a Rooster? that part always confused me

My guess is that he was neither. In Lara we see that the faction's campaign for the support of candidates. They attempt to lure her to their mandate with promises of salvation and that Peter, as a Rooster, ultimately lures her to the Rooster faction by initiating her. The Old Man states that Lara and Frank are all that remains of the true intention of the group and that the 'damn Owls and Roosters' don't even know what they are fighting for any more. The inference is that Group was once whole and unsullied and by remaining unaffiliated, at that moment, Frank and Lara represent what the Group was intended to be in its purest form.

Eth

[Earthnut]

Frank and Lara represent what the Group was intended to be in its purest form

The Old Man was seeing their spirits, caring, honest, and full of the desire for peace. He saw no self-importance and lust for power.

[Guest jamhaw]

"Owls" / "Roosters:

Laser-guided gunplay, evil Nazis, buried treasure half-way across the globe, an obligatory Taxi Driver homage, and an ending that wraps up what's supposed to be a centuries old conflict between the Millennium Group and Odessa in the space of a ruthless thirty-second music montage...

...imagine showing this to a newbie, back to back with say "Gehenna" and asking them to imagine what happened in between.

Sorry, I don't want to open up the old can of worms either, but I just thought I'd share why some such as myself have a different opinion on the subject in as brief a manner as possible. Everyone's opinion is equally valid though.

Really it was a centuries old conflict? I had thought ODESSA had only been created in the mid-forties, although it has been awhile since I saw the episode so my memory could be a little fuzzy. Additionaly did it really compleatly rap up the conflict? As I recall they arrested most of the members of the dummy company and killed ODESSA's leader as well as destroying the blood banner, but I do not remember it having been established that they had destroyed the group it it's entirety. I had thought that they were spread out accross South America. Perhaps I should use this as an excuse to view those episodes again! :)

Edited December 6, 2009 by jamhaw

[FrankBlack2]

Just watched Owls/Roosters tonight, first time in many years...I had forgotten the Old Man had died, and sadly so brutally. On the one plus side it did , at least temporarily, heal the rift between Frank & Peter & Lara....If only the writers could have kept it that way, and not kill off Catherine ( although I know Megan in an interview said she was OK with it...I'm sure many besides myself weren't ) On the other plus side it did introduce me to a beautiful piece of music. The old man was right, BTW...the thing is 4 and a half hours long!

[The Whisperer]

I love that music, Wagner's Parsifal, and hunted down an inexpensive copy of the overture section for my Millennium soundtrack collection playlist. It's one of my favourite episodes too, and an extremely pivotal one for the entire Millennium myth arc. When I look at the world geopolitical situation today, I am constantly reminded of the persistent draw of 'faith' over reason, and vice versa. 

[Earthnut]

Alex, who posts tracks of Mark Snow's music every week in "Snow Files of the Week," may very well have everything that Snow has produced.  If there's anything else you are looking for, Alex may already have it and share, or know where you can get it.

[Jabbapop]

Sorry to be posting what like 12 years later, but I just finished these episodes on DVD and I've gotta take a moment to vent/gag. This episode pair for me encapsulates the conflict between season 1 and season 2. Season 1 was all about casting a sense of verisimilitude into the horrifying nature of evil, attempting to confront the limits of an understand with a solid grounding. Frank had a gift, true, but it was always described as approachable as possible to those around him. We were shown the reality around which he saw, so the supernatural seemed to blur with the real. Now we go to the season 2, and it's so much surface symbolisms, visions and ghosts, high adventure. Things don't feel "real." The whole nazi plotline is the icing on the cake; it could have been something out of Indiana Jones. Yes, I understand there is historical groundings for "Secret Societies," and it's no surprise that eventually a group like Millennium might come into conflict in this. It just doesn't feel very "Milleniuministic." Season 1 was so much about confronting evil, whereas season 2 feels like confronting high concept writing aspirations. If the story didn't tell us that the villains were nazis it would be really difficult to see them as evil.  Where is the psychology in this which Frank went to such great lengths to explain to the professionals around him? Millennium Group was such a plausible professional consulting group with hints of an "Advanced Division" in season 1, and right off the bat season 2 they're just spouting cult lines "This is Who We Are" every moment a member is on screen! 

Anywho, the morning coffee has yet to filter through my veins, and I ate a whole pizza last night and I'm feeling like garbage this morning  so I might be gluten intolerant. Excuse the circular reasoning. :)

[seesthru]

It was my favorite season, because it was  "out there"  ...  I like all seasons, but no, they don't "fit" .  2 was definitely a  side journey, and  though I liked season 3, I'm not sure if  it  got us back to the original premises set up in season 1.  I  am not one to study shows, etc... I didn't learn people did that until I came here! I'd "study"  characters, but not shows.  

I didn't know about easter eggs, like the Spotnitz Sanatorium,  which BTW turned up in  the X-files last week... on the side of an ambulance.

I learned about continuity here.  I'd watch episodes, aware of the story-line kind of, but more interested in teh episode as a standalone:  was it good, did I like it, was it entertaining?

I do see what you are saying.  2 went   "out there" .    Frank went from being a guy with insight to a guy with paranormal abilities, Jordan from a normal kid to the inheritor of  "abilities", and a future target of the group.  The group went form do-gooders to an evil cult.

I know it upset many.  I liked it... it was entertaining... and very like what i was witnessing as the year 2000 was approaching .. the internet was filled with conspiracies and  strangeness...mystical though... not like today.  

 

Anyway... I have no excuse for my wanderings here in this post... I just DO that ! LOL    I think  switching writers or whatever,  is the ultimate cause of the problems in this series..  all the writers are fantastic, but,  had different visions for what the show was about.   THe continuity  got lost in the  team changes.   I still liked it all though!

[Earthnut]

What made this show a tad confusing is the fact that each season had multiple writers, directors, and producers.  And if my memory hasn't failed me, Chris Carter was one of the producers for all 3 seasons, but was directly involved in only seasons 1 & 3.  He didn't write any of the episodes in season 2, just 4 in season 1 and 3 in season 3.  You can look it up here for more details ~

https://millennium-thisiswhoweare.net/guide/crew/

 

[Gotham Gal]

The story all looks quite quaint today.  People would say the show dropped in ratings and that's why it was cancelled.  My own take on it was that it was hard on an audience to not know what to expect season to season.  My fave was season 2, but many seem to prefer 1.  To some extent, X-Files had that same thing with mythology vs. monster of the week episodes, but to me, episodic changes are easier than seasonal ones, though arguably, MM was a better show (or at least I could make that argument--whether I'd convince anyone is another matter altogether.)