Millenium Group Assassin

[ethsnafu]

Mabius is a real enigma isn't he? Although very little is revealed about the mysterious Lucy Butler we do have enough onscreen time to use as basis for speculation but with Mabius we have virtually nothing up there on the screen at all. My wish-list for season four of Millennium would have included a Mabius episode. Despite having very little time with him I did find him compelling and very menacing and he could have easily been up there with the likes of Lucy Butler as one of Frank's more memorable adversaries. There was so much more they could have done with the series, so many stories left to tell. It's such a shame that it never happened.

Eth

[Earthnut]

On a postive side, not having all the answers gives us so much more to discuss. I agree, it would have been nice to have an episode strickly about Mabius, the ultimate criminal profiling subject, the un-sub. I especially would love to know the Mabius origin in the group .

[IHaveGoodInstincts]

The issue of why Mabius didn't kill Frank could be extended to any of the avatars of Legion. The question would be equally valid if one were to ask why didn't Lucy Butler kill Frank Black? She had more than opportunity to do just that. To query that though does confuse what Legion's mandate was. It was never to kill Frank but to lure him into their service willingly, something that can't be done if Frank is dead.

Eth

To a lesser extent, the Group, for the most part, seemed to take this stance with Frank as well. At this point in season 3, it could be assumed that Legion and the Group wanted similar, if not the same thing regarding Frank, for the same reasons.

"Powers" seemed to imply that Frank was not "protected" from evil, but contextually, at least by season 3, it seems like Frank may have had some level of spiritual protection, at least in my opinion.

[ethsnafu]

Now I don't think I've ever heard that asserted before. I'm fascinated to hear your thoughts on 'Frank's spiritual protection' if you have time to share them.

I generally got the impression that what protected him was a sort of gentleman's agreement. The idea that he had to come willingly but once he had signalled his willingness then all hell could potentially break loose. That said, "Antipas" does sully the waters a little as Lucy all but rapes him though it could be inferred that there was reluctant willingness on his part, at least momentarily, that allowed her to bend the rules a little.

Eth

[IHaveGoodInstincts]

In brief, I was just kind of piggy-backing off some of the ideas behind "Somehow Satan," where the devil himself does not literally kill, but has great influence to make it happen, depending on a number of things. I'm not saying anything so extreme as Frank being unkillable, but that the idea of having a certain level of spiritual protection against evil makes sense to me. The end of "Seven and One" seems to imply some level of rebirth or growth. We, and the writers, have Legion as being an evil spiritual force, which from a Christian perspective, would make some sense. Was Frank's life made a "living hell" a few times? Oh yes! There's even some probable and possibly unintented references to the Biblical character of Job here. Well, at least the same general idea related to pain and suffering that many other examples could probably be referenced to as well.

Just a few thoughts.......

.

[ethsnafu]

What a great insight you have. I have to say I had something of a different perspective but that's the beauty of "Millennium" it is the Rorschach Test of television. I always thought that Legion was drawn to Frank not because he had an innate degree of protection from dark forces but because he was particularly susceptible to them. I always understood that the underlying message was that Frank's battle with good and evil existed within the microcosm and the macrocosm. He fought the evil that threatened the sanctuary of The Yellow House and in doing so he fought the darkness that he was exposed to within himself. I guess it all goes back to the original premise "...I become capability. I become the horror..." What we know we can become only in our heart of darkness..." I always viewed it as akin to the way our physiology wages war with infection, attempting to keep it under control - Frank did much the same thing in regards to the darkness he was exposed to. Legion sought to tip the balance in its favour if you like, just push that darkness over the manageability threshold if you like.

You know that makes perfect sense to me when I think about it. I'm not too sure it does when I write it down.

Eth

[IHaveGoodInstincts]

Yes, Frank was very susceptible, though it seemed that he became less susceptible as the show went on, going on what Seven and One had to offer, as well as other episodes later in the third season. Could Frank's recognition of evil changed after the "attack" at the Yellow House? I would wager that it became much more real to him! And scary! And scary! And scary!

My ideas above kind of draw out aspects of Millennium with a Christian template, if I may call it that. I'm not out to make Frank Black the next Elijah, but in the Christian understanding of evil, spiritual attacks, if I may call them that, tend to occur when an individual develops an understanding of evil, turns from it, and fights it. Frank fits this well, and like several "heroic" Biblical characters, makes major mistakes along the way. Getting back to "Somehow Satan," or "The Screwtape Letters," if people are not turning from evil or recognozing it, then the devil's work was done well! Being blinded to the evil would be similar to how Al Pepper, the Judge, Tamara, and Mr Crocell tried to tempt Frank to turn away from the fight. In Christian terms, the attacks on Frank could be said to be the result of his recognition of the evil and that he is trying to do something about it, which is quite similar to some of your points above as well.

MIllennium's also got some Buddhist influence, the "Ghost Dance," as well as some "Ying-Yang" going on with the Old Man in "Beware of the Dog." They even take a stab, or actually those nasty gunshots to the head, at Revelation with Maranatha! Where a lot of other television shows would thumb down of dumb down these ideas, Millennium embraces them to the fullest. But that's me and what drew me to the show, unlike any other. I like the Rorschach example, and it fits so well here. There are many explanations for the nature of evil, and I was just going with what I know.

[Guest Blueboy]

Sorry, im not buying it. To me the entire "Legion" thing is a fantasy that fan types made up to tie together disparate elements that in reality, because of various writers takes, are only connected in the most nebulous way. So what if the guy leaves a note. Pfft..Hes pig food,

And since Im raising some hackles, I need to say that I don't believe for a minute that C.C didn't know what Morgan and Wong were doing. Not only had he used their material in Xfiles ( a totally over the top show that doesnt hold up for crap with time) but they had acted in numerous roles in the production of Millennium. He gave them the ball, he wanted his ball back...What's he done since...not a damn thing.

Look, The answer to the whole thing is contained in what is actually the best of Millennium, that being "The Curse of Frank Black." It's simple, Frank either puts his gift to work for humanity and sacrifices his family, or he doesn't. He goes back and washes the house. The decision is made. He sacrifices his family (and the show with it ) and here, what, 13 years later, you guys still moon over it.

Yeah, it was a great show (mostly) and yeah, it's over. Lance is 70 now, there's not going to be a reprise, and you guys remind me of Beatles fans who still want a reunion.

[ethsnafu]

With the greatest of respect this a fan-forum dedicated to Millennium. Upon visiting it you shouldn't be surprised to encounter individuals mooning over it. If you feel this is a perfunctory pursuit at best then my advice would be to avoid these types of discussions.

I happen to agree with you on a number of the points you have raised. The Legion arc is a fan creation. I know Chris Carter has gone on record to explain that fans coined the term in reference to what they perceived to be a link between the forces of darkness that Frank encountered. He has also gone on record to state that it wasn't until "Seven and One" that he validated the preoccupations of the fans and gave them a "Legion" episode. That said, show me a fandom that doesn't engage in a little speculative thinking and I will pronounce that fandom lacking. It's what fans do, it is the currency of discussion forums everywhere and there is a choice to engage in this type of exchange or not. Horses for courses.

I also agree that Chris Carter was not unaware of the changes that were brought about in the second year of the show. It is inconceivable that he would be. Whatever the truth of the matter is, it is water under the bridge and to be frank with you I cannot see where it is asserted in this thread that anything to the contrary is believed by those contributing to it.

I also agree with you (we're doing well aren't we) with regards to a Millennium Movie. I don't believe it will happen either but if people wish to believe such a thing they are free to do so. Again, I'm not sure why this particular issue was raised here.

I hope I don't appear to be rebutting you as I'm not but your post does read a little like a reprimand although I am sure that wasn't your intention.

Eth

[The Old Man]

here, what, 13 years later, you guys still moon over it.

... we certainly continue to remember and discuss the show, I wouldn't exactly say we moon over it! Even 13 years later, people are inspired it by it, whilst some try to copy and others attempt to rip it off

As Eth says above, why expect anything less on a dedicated website than to find people who still enjoy talking about the show, especially those who have only recently discovered it.

For what its worth, and as I have openly said before, yes the opportunity and right time for a movie has now passed. The campaign though, is another matter entirely, and lies beyond the scope of this thread.