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What Episodes Made You Mad


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Guest MillenniumIsBliss
yeah, I understand your point too. It can take some time with some episodes. I hope that next time I´m watching season two, that episode would be better :yes:

Yes, now that you are expecting it, maybe you can wait for the right mood to come along and give it another try. Like I said, if you are looking for a quick fix of dark classic Millennium, you are better off going with an episode like the Pilot, but if you are in the mood for something a little lighter and more fun, that's the perfect time for a "Doomsday Defense" type episode. That's one of the great things about having the DVD sets, you can select whatever episode fits your mood at the time. :yes:

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Guest Prophecy
Yes, now that you are expecting it, maybe you can wait for the right mood to come along and give it another try. Like I said, if you are looking for a quick fix of dark classic Millennium, you are better off going with an episode like the Pilot, but if you are in the mood for something a little lighter and more fun, that's the perfect time for a "Doomsday Defense" type episode. That's one of the great things about having the DVD sets, you can select whatever episode fits your mood at the time. :yes:

Actually I watched the Pilot today! :yes: Autumn and rain is here, so I think I´m going to watch more those darker episodes :D

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Yes, now that you are expecting it, maybe you can wait for the right mood to come along and give it another try. Like I said, if you are looking for a quick fix of dark classic Millennium, you are better off going with an episode like the Pilot, but if you are in the mood for something a little lighter and more fun, that's the perfect time for a "Doomsday Defense" type episode. That's one of the great things about having the DVD sets, you can select whatever episode fits your mood at the time. :yes:

VERY true!

Sometimes, you're just in a really dark mood, and it's late at night, during a rainstorm.... and Gehenna is just what you're looking for!

Other times, you need something inspirational....and other times, something lighthearted.

That's what's so great about this series, though it only lasted 3 years. It's not so "cookie cutter", and always the same. It changes... Like life!

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Guest Sophie
The Well-worn Lock.. Clea Bangs's attitude, for example, is infuriating:

CATHERINE: I'm sorry this is happening.

MRS. BANGS: Could have been avoided.

CATHERINE: How do you mean?

MRS. BANGS: I think you know.

CATHERINE: Are you at all aware how your daughters feel about their father, Mrs. Bangs?

MRS. BANGS: Everything seemed quite all right for the past 35 years. Now you're an expert?

CATHERINE: Did you ever have a secret, something you didn't want to tell because you were afraid someone might use it against you?

MRS. BANGS: No.

CATHERINE: We all have secrets, Mrs. Bangs.

MRS. BANGS: Maybe that's what they're best kept as.

:blowup:

For me too! :angryred:

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Guest ModernDayMoriarty

Really, in the great scheme of things, there is only two episodes (one is a two parter actually, but the same story), that really gets me going. And they are...

Siren.

Because it could have, and should have been great. I have cricised many of the episodes that Morgan and Wong wrote, because I felt they were striking down the wrong path, but this is different. This is simply a victim of poor execution. As a companion episode to 'The Curse of Frank Black' and 'Luminary', it showed that Frank is most certainly not at ease with aiding the Group. But... it's just so miserably handled. The Siren herself leaves very little impact and her dialogue is awful. It's only the hallucinations that suggest how good this episode could have been.

But my problems with this episode pale in comparison to:

The Fourth Horseman/The Time is Now.

Although I have many problems with Morgan and Wong's Season Two decisions, the Marburg outbreak is the worst. It placed Millennium in an impossible situation, and for no better reason than M+W were unhappy at how their vision of the show hadn't been as well received as they had hoped.

I understand how they were feeling down. They had had some rough times in the recent past. After they left Season Two of The X-Files, everything seemed to be going great for them. The X-Files fans loved them unconditionally and they had been given the chance at their own show.

But Space:Above and Beyond failed dismally in the ratings and Glen Morgan stated in an interview that he'd never felt as sad as he did when sitting in his office, he heard them tearing the sets for SAAB apart. They tried working on Millennium in Season One, but left halfway through citing problems with the darkness and violence of the show. So they go back to The X-Files, where they write 4 episodes that show they have lost the spark for the show they once had (the fans justifiably trashed all but one of them).

And then they get the Season Two gig. Now I, like many (T J Wright for example) felt that they started pretty well, but let things slide. By the time of the Season finale, they are quoted in interviews as being sorely disapointed with how things have turned out. Low ratings and the fact that Fox didn't treat them with anywhere near the same respect they gave Chris Carter, meant they were at a low ebb.

So when Millennium's adverts are shunted aside for football promotion etc, it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. At Darin Morgan's suggestion of 'Why don't you just end the world?', they come up with the season finale. I've said many times that inflicting your personal woes on a television show is just irresponsible. They all but detonated the show, flagrantly dismissing the mythology that they themselves had been building up.

It's only by a miracle (and I suspect, the influence of Chris Carter), that Millennium is renewed. Studios are notorious for using any kind of even semi conclusive ending to wrap up shows that are in trouble. And here is where I really generate my anger at this episode. People don't crticise this outrageous act of petulence by M+W... No, instead they criticise the S3 writers who were saddled with salvaging the wreck they were left! Makes me mad...

There are many episodes (largely Season Two) that I think were very poor and contributed to the show's demise, but this is the culmination. After a great start in 'The Beginning and the End' and 'Beware of the Dog', Morgan and Wong don't so much drop the ball, as sling it over the wall into a deep pond. They hire writers like Erin Maher and Kay Reindl, who I'm sorry, but just are not up the task. And between them, the two partnerships write disaster after disaster after disaster.

And I put it all down, as I've said many times, to Morgan and Wong simply not being suited to helm their own show. They needed people to rein them in and suggest changes. They needed writers who offered different styles. As it was, only Chip Johanessen was able to do this. And he did his part, writing 3 episodes that took the show in what I consider to be a far superior direction. I remain to this day, a staunch supporter of his third season.

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Actually I think you're a bit unfair with the second season. Although it isn't a masterpiece it had it's darn good moments. Maybe you should see again the whole season through your feelings instead of your brain

Cheers

" Boys, boys, boys ! Lighten up, this is a homicide not a funeral ! " - Rocket McGrane

HOO-YA / SEMPER FI

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Guest ModernDayMoriarty

I have watched all three seasons many times, and I think short of some kind of physical wounding to my brain, Season Two will remain a grave disapointment for me. It did indeed have its moments, but it was undone by a huge amount of mediocre episodes.

It is hardly surprising however, given the sheer volume of episodes they try to undertake. Placing that kind of pressure on yourself is not healthy for a series, as it leads to burnout, particularly if the series is not well received.

The season is too one track to be satisfying, even despite the variable quality. Episodes like 'Sense and Antisense' and 'The Mikado' change up the tone a bit, but they are in the minority. Michael Perry has stated that they did float a few ideas past M+W but were vetoed. There was no-one in place to stop M+W from doing what they wanted though, so we get poor episodes like '19:19' and the cartoonish Odessa stories spanning 'The Hand of Saint Sebastian' to 'Owls/Roosters'.

Their insistence on writing so many episodes is symptomatic of the fervour with which the different executive producers seemed to approach the show. Chris Carter may only have written 4 episodes in Season One, but by all accounts he was ever present in all areas of the show. And the show did suffer somewhat, as the other writers were going to him with a kind of 'Is this what you were getting at Chris?' attitude, because he was so guarded on what he wanted the show to be. (It evidently perplexed M+W as I say, because they left halfway through!)

Season Two sees M+W attack Millennium full bore, determined to turn it into quite different. But the quality sags because they don't delegate responsiblity to capable writers. Most of this seems to be because of an exodus of the writing staff, who it is reported has strong objections to their ideas. I just don't understand why they didn't hire some better writers to help them out. Saying you can handle it when you blatantly can't helps no-one.

Don't misunderstand - Morgan and Wong were fine writers, but far too many of their episodes fell short of the mark in Season Two. They knew themselves that writing about evil and a growing sickness in society was not for them - they said as much when they left the first time. But you can't just take something that is so important to the show and not write about it at all! They only really go near that subject in 'The Pest House'. And with Darin Morgan wrting his usual loopy episodes, and Maher and Renidl doing more emotional, melodramtic episodes, that's half your staff not connecting with the main thrust of the show Chris Carter created.

Lastly, I think M+W allowed themselves to become too attached to the romantic elements of the Group. In 'Beware of the Dog', The Old Man delivers what is really a very chilling statement of purpose. He tells Frank that the Group will seek equilibrium, and underscores this with the example of Michael Bieby. If there is too much good in any given place, the Group will ensure that good is excised. It is only through the understanding that his presence averted crisis that Frank stays after hearing this.

Episodes like '19:19', 'A Single Blade of Grass' and 'Owls/Roosters' are supposed to be commenting on the Group and their dubious actions through examination of like minded organisations or peoples. But they fail because the culprits are either pretty silly (like Odessa) or are treated with undue sympathy by the writers. Only Chip J's 'Sense and Antisense' delivers in this regard, exposing the monstrosity of organisations like the Group, but also the toll which it takes on their members.

At this point in the Season, M+W were talking of the 'Hero's Journey'. How Frank would spend the year learning and pondering if he could trust the Group. And in those first three episodes, I can't fault Season 2. But a slew of bad episodes, hugely melodramatic turns in 'Monster' and 'A single blade of grass' signal the start of the slump.

There are too many episodes that expose the inner workings of the Group and not enough that view it from the outside (i.e Frank's view). The group interview scene at the start of 'Luminary' should have been the way this was handled. M+W simply liked their ideas about the Group too much, and didn't really like Frank Black at all (but all of this has been covered before).

If you like Season Two, that's great. Myself, I dearly wanted to like it, but it's just not possible. So much potential wasted. Those first three episodes do such a great job of showing how the series could grow from the groundwork laid down in Season One, but it isn't until Season Three that that promise is finally realised. Episodes like 'Skull and Bones', 'Collateral Damage' and 'Bardo Thodol' show that of all the Season execs, Chip J was the best able to handle the pressure.

He wrote enough episodes without overdoing it, spread his episodes apart to give the other writers space to breath and work. He wrote both alone and with others, knowing when to step in to help and when to ask for help. In fact the only people that let down Season 3 are Chris Carter and Frank Spotnitz, who probably still exerted too much influence for anyone to come up to them and say 'Actually guys, this is rubbish. Take another swing and have it on my desk tomorrow...'

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Guest ZeusFaber
People don't crticise this outrageous act of petulence by M+W... No, instead they criticise the S3 writers who were saddled with salvaging the wreck they were left! Makes me mad...

I completely agree with you on this point. I feel precisely the same way. Well put.

I also feel that your above assessment of the second season is, by and large, right on the money, and as ever, very well articulated.

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Well, I'm not a theatrical critic guru myself as it seems you are from the very articulate expose you put up. I always rely on my feelings in watching a movie. I want to feel the movie not dissect it, as I don't have to write the next day column in Spectator or Variety. If it is for that the whole show had it's share of blunders / errors. But I'm not going to hunt for them if I don't have to. This is utterly time wasting and disrupting.

Then again you're accusing Morgan & Wong for the termination of the show. It might be, it might be not. Millennium never had the numbers that X-Files had but this is in part, humble opinion, because people do not " connect " with the show, or do not understands. Instead it had a steady base. And this during the whole show and not only in the second season.

As a side note the film critics who supervised the issue of the dvd's here in Italy were utterly united. The second season is of a good quality.

" Boys, boys, boys ! Lighten up, this is a homicide not a funeral ! " - Rocket McGrane

HOO-YA / SEMPER FI

signaturecko.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/romanianspecialforces/marines.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/307th_Marine_Battalion

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