Abyss Ratings for "Pilot" through "Kingdom Come"

[Guest ZeusFaber]

Feel free to opine on each of your choices too.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Feel free to opine on each of your choices too.

I casted my vote. I think all of the rankings were just about right except that Gehenna was, without a doubt, a 5 star episode, and "The Judge" deserved a 4 out of 5 or better. If I had to guess, I would say that I agree with the Abyss about 75% of the time, am within 1 star about 15% of the time, and think they are way off about 10% of the time.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

My responses usually follow a simmilar frequency, although I expect the individual episodes we respond to are very different as usual.

For this batch, I agree with you about "Gehenna" and "The Judge" deserving higher scores. However, I also thought that "Dead Letters" and "5-2-2-6-6-6" deserved much lower scores. They would probably have received between 2 or 3 stars in my eyes.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

My responses usually follow a simmilar frequency, although I expect the individual episodes we respond to are very different as usual.

For this batch, I agree with you about "Gehenna" and "The Judge" deserving higher scores. However, I also thought that "Dead Letters" and "5-2-2-6-6-6" deserved much lower scores. They would probably have received between 2 or 3 stars in my eyes.

LOL, once again Morgan and Wong episodes. I know you are a big fan of the show overall, but just imagine how great it would have been for you had Morgan and Wong never been brought into the fold. From your post, I gather that 52666 and Dead Letters were among your least favorite in season one, we know what you think of season two, and I think season two threw season three out of whack in a way. If M & W's episodes were replaced by a mix of the other writers on the show, almost all of the content that you don't approve of would be eliminated. Sure, there would be a few subpar episodes along the way, but the "direction" would probably not have been tampered with. As you know, I approve of all things "Morgan and Wong", so I probably enjoyed the series more overall, but I would love to go back in a time machine, tie up Morgan and Wong and put them in a closet and see what would have happened without them. Maybe, as some imply, we would have seen several more seasons of Millennium, maybe not. Who knows? Of course, being that I loved the series so much and enjoyed Morgan and Wong's material like I did, I would have to then go back in my time machine and untie Morgan and Wong and let the series proceed along it's natural course.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

Interesting thoughts. I must say though, I don't hate all of Morgan & Wong's scripts, and don't take a dislike to them just for the sake of it. I think they did a good job with "The Thin White Line" in Season 1, and with "The Curse of Frank Black" and to an extent "The Beginning and the End" in Season Two.

However, I would like to see what might have been had M&W not been appointed showrunners in S2. In an ideal world, Chris Carter could have done great things, be we all know that was never an option given the other workload he had to do. Besides, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the quality of The X-Files Season 5 and movie which would innevitably happen if he had to divide his time again.

Instead, maybe Chip Johannesen getting control a year early? Michael R. Perry didn't really have enough experience to be showrunner. Maybe Ken Horton? Could have been a very different evolution for the show going into S2. Nevertheless, I wouldn't wish away M&W entirely. I'd still be happy for them to have stayed on staff and wrote a few standalones, keeping "The Curse of Frank Black" as one of them.

In any case, I wouldn't like to speculate on nay of that actually extending the lifespan of the series in any way. I might have enjoyed the product a lot more and found less to object about in the material, but we all know that ratings are a foul and unfair beast, and that they very rarely reward true quality.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Interesting thoughts. I must say though, I don't hate all of Morgan & Wong's scripts, and don't take a dislike to them just for the sake of it. I think they did a good job with "The Thin White Line" in Season 1, and with "The Curse of Frank Black" and to an extent "The Beginning and the End" in Season Two.

However, I would like to see what might have been had M&W not been appointed showrunners in S2. In an ideal world, Chris Carter could have done great things, be we all know that was never an option given the other workload he had to do. Besides, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the quality of The X-Files Season 5 and movie which would innevitably happen if he had to divide his time again.

Instead, maybe Chip Johannesen getting control a year early? Michael R. Perry didn't really have enough experience to be showrunner. Maybe Ken Horton? Could have been a very different evolution for the show going into S2. Nevertheless, I wouldn't wish away M&W entirely. I'd still be happy for them to have stayed on staff and wrote a few standalones, keeping "The Curse of Frank Black" as one of them.

In any case, I wouldn't like to speculate on nay of that actually extending the lifespan of the series in any way. I might have enjoyed the product a lot more and found less to object about in the material, but we all know that ratings are a foul and unfair beast, and that they very rarely reward true quality.

UGHHH, I just deleted my reply to this message by clicking the back button on the wrong window Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if this stuff can ever be recovered. My skill level on the computer can best be described as novice of adequate, so I don't know many of the tricks, but you would think that there should be a notepad or something you could go to to recover lost text. Oh well, football is about to start, so I will have to return and try to remember what I was saying. One thing I can say is that the X-files movie was very good, and the X-files was still at its peak in season 5, so I agree, I would have hated to see the quality of that show suffer as a result of CC spending too much time with Millennium.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

That's very annoying when that happens, I know how you feel.

I agree, I would have hated to see the quality of that show suffer as a result of CC spending too much time with Millennium

That's what I think happened to an extent with S4 of TXF, so I wouldn't make the trade off for the 1997/98 season.

[Guest betweenthelines]

I think 'Gehenna' probably deserves a 4 out of 5. It may not have been quite as attention-getting as the Pilot, but how shocking can you get after that? I think it was a worthy second episode, with some great visuals and an interesting story.

'Dead Letters', on the other hand... eh. Liked Jordan's dream about the clown, but that was it. I couldn't explain why, but I never really liked that episode. They redeemed themselves with '522666', however...

Edited to add: I agree that 'The Judge' deserves at least a 4 star rating. I always thought it was underrated myself...

[Guest ZeusFaber]

I agree with your opinion of "Gehenna" -- certainly a 4 if not a 5.

I also agree about "Dead Letters". It has some redeeming features, such as the dream and the clown image that you discribe, and also James Morrison's performance, but otherwise it is a standard serial-killer story that you have seen a thousand times before without a new twist or angle.

The only thing I disagree with you on is "5-2-2-6-6-6". I find it to be a standard proceedural with little if anything to connect it to the unique Millennium identity. It's not awful, and it's not boring, it's just unremarkable IMO.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

I agree with your opinion of "Gehenna" -- certainly a 4 if not a 5.

I also agree about "Dead Letters". It has some redeeming features, such as the dream and the clown image that you discribe, and also James Morrison's performance, but otherwise it is a standard serial-killer story that you have seen a thousand times before without a new twist or angle.

The only thing I disagree with you on is "5-2-2-6-6-6". I find it to be a standard proceedural with little if anything to connect it to the unique Millennium identity. It's not awful, and it's not boring, it's just unremarkable IMO.

They are all 5s in my opinion, especially Gehenna, which is an episode that would score perfect marks with me on any scale. I thought Dead Letters was a 5 too, but I realize that I am in the minority on that one. As you mentioned, I thought James Morrison gave a great performance, and his character was interesting, complex and well written, which also allows for some great interaction with Frank's character. I kind of thought it was unique in that, up until this series, I don't remember ever being brought into the crime scene in such a close up, realistic and personal way, although many might not appreciate this. The dream sequence was also great, and the episode had a Millenniumistic feel to me. I also don't remember ever being brought into the world of the forensic profiler before, as we were with Frank and James in this episode. For example, the horrific photos on the walls and the reaction of family members, like we see when James son comes into the basement. I thought the episode was interesting in how it got into the heads of the profilers and the effect this line of work has on their mind. I thought James struggles with his emotions and the interaction with Frank, as a kind of mentor, made for an interesting story. In the end, James could not come to grips with the demons he faced, which made him into sort of a flawed shakespearian tragic hero, don't you think . I also found that the killer leaving the clues on the hairs was a unique angle.