Question about "Luminary"

[stuartW]

Having just watched Luminary I had another question. It relates to why Frank did not get onto the plane after he handed Alex over to Peter Watts?

There were obviously limited places on the aircraft as the sheriff tells one of the men to stay behind and they will pick him up later. But even if Frank is in a confused or untrusting state of mind, common sense would have it that someone would stay behind with Frank. Especially as they are in the wilderness!

I would have thought that Peter would have seen Alex into the aircraft and then come back to be with Frank? It depends of course if Peter was sent to get Frank by the group or if he came out of friendship. In a similar spirit that Frank went with Peter in the Hand of St Sebastian.

From a framing perspective it does make for a great scene where the camera moves to be behind Frank huddled with the blanket and seeing the plane take off over the lake. As I have not seen the rest of the season this scene may mark a transition where Frank starts to separate himself from the group and is used for that dramatic effect?

In other words are the writers telling me that I should ponder this question some more........ until next week?

[Guest SouthernCelt]

I've always assumed that Frank refused to go on the plane because (1) he was emotionally and physically exhausted and just wanted a little "down" time with no questions and (2) he didn't want to be in a circumstance to deal with Peter after the way the Group had treated him in the "interview" and with Peter just flat refusing to help early on. Frank probably didn't know at that point that Peter came there primarily on his own and not for or with the Group's approval so he had reason to mistrust Peter. I guess you could say that may have been the turning point when Frank realized the Group wasn't about helping individuals but had much bigger and more obscure (to him) goals. Although Frank didn't volunteer to help everyone with a problem that he happened upon, he did show compassion for some people as individuals.

[Guest Laurent.]

I had a stranger view of this particular event... I thought that, especially with the position that he puts himself in (somewhat fetal), that he was transforming into a more mature version. Just to show that this experience made him grow just like it did with Alex.

[stuartW]

Thank you both for your input.

that he was transforming into a more mature version. Just to show that this experience made him grow just like it did with Alex.

Yes there is that sense that Frank's experience did change him and with the references to "going to the mountain to gain wisdom" it fits.

Frank probably didn't know at that point that Peter came there primarily on his own and not for or with the Group's approval so he had reason to mistrust Peter. I guess you could say that may have been the turning point when Frank realized the Group wasn't about helping individuals but had much bigger and more obscure (to him) goals.

Good point yes it had the feel of a "turning point" like things will never be the same . I must say the episode is a good one and who could complain about the majestic scenery just awe inspiring.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

[Guest Sheree Dawn]

Listen guys. Can't it be that the whole floater thing was just a flaw in the script? I mean, the whole thing was handled poorly so... Don't get me wrong, I love Luminary but this aspect of the episode was never clear enough. For me it is a plot hole. Just my opinion.

I think it was a hole in the plot, and part of me wants to think it was meant to be that way. It gave us something to think about and something to make our own assumptions on. My reasoning would have been that Frank would go back to where the floater originated from, searching for some personal belongings to disprove the identity. He found the personal possessions, just not those of the floater. But it was all divine providence, perhaps, and luckily Frank was tuned into the visions he was receiving.

As far as the episodes go, it was one of the weakest, just my opinion. But there was something very powerful about it. It makes you look at your life, as it is now, and stirs something deep inside. Most of us aren't really doing what we want and/or aren't really where we want to be in life.

I think it is human nature to be dissatisfied at some level of our existence. And it is that level that Luminary touches and awakens.

I felt the need to shed my earthly posessions and do exactly what Alex did. Or at least pack my bags and hit the road, not knowing where to go, just going. This episode changes something within me. 'Nuf said.

[Guest charlie98210]

This is slightly off topic, but did anyone notice that when Frank found the transponder (emergency beacon) and Alex's camp, he fired a flare and then sat down with Alex's journal to wait for "help to arrive"?

I assume the pilot, thinking like the sheriff that Frank was on a wild goose chase, wasn't even watching for a signal. Both the pilot and the sheriff assumed that, when Frank didn't show up at sundown, he had gotten himself into trouble up there...just like they thought he would.

Which ties back to their making all those "easy" assumptions regarding the ID of the anonymous floater.

I have noticed a lot of little things in the season two episodes which would qualify as some very subtle forshadowing (both in how Frank starts to view "The Group" as more cult-like and questionable, rather than as a professional investigatory body).

It's something to think about.

[Raven Wolf]

Very good point, Charlie! I wondered that myself....since that's what those flairs are FOR....why no-one came! Frank obviously assumed they WOULD...it made sense to not just turn your back on someone in the Alaska wilderness....

but, as we've all seen, some people are not to be trusted...

[Orodromeus]

I thought the flare was a way for Frank to call Alex back to his camp, not to call help. A kind of safety, before moving out to a different place, so that Frank wouldn't miss him. From what Frank finds he can think Alex is in a pretty bad shape, but it's better to make one's presence known and explore all possible scenarios before moving away from Alex's camp.

And after this, Frank finds Alex close by thanks to the magic of the night lights in that ethereal scene, which adds to the doubt as to this Alex's real nature...

[Guest charlie98210]

I thought the flare was a way for Frank to call Alex back to his camp, not to call help. A kind of safety, before moving out to a different place, so that Frank wouldn't miss him. From what Frank finds he can think Alex is in a pretty bad shape, but it's better to make one's presence known and explore all possible scenarios before moving away from Alex's camp.

And after this, Frank finds Alex close by thanks to the magic of the night lights in that ethereal scene, which adds to the doubt as to this Alex's real nature...

I beg to differ. Frank finds the broken GPS locator, then searches and finds Alex's camp. He pulls open the sleeping bag and it's soaked with blood. Since he had gone there searching for either the drowned John Doe's camp or, hopefuilly, to find Alex, the flare was to inform the pilot that he had been successful.

ps., what did you mean by "doubt as to Alex's real nature..."?

I took it to mean that the lights were a sign to help Frank find Alex because it was not Alex's destiny to die at that time.

Edited June 3, 2008 by charlie98210

[Orodromeus]

I beg to differ. Frank finds the broken GPS locator, then searches and finds Alex's camp. He pulls open the sleeping bag and it's soaked with blood. Since he had gone there searching for either the drowned John Doe's camp or, hopefuilly, to find Alex, the flare was to inform the pilot that he had been successful.

For me, the plane had left for the town and Frank was left all alone until the next rendez-vous Frank and the pilot had agreed upon (and the pilot was very adamant he wouldn't wait for long). There is no way the plane would have seen the flare from where Frank was. Frank wouldn't have felt successful if he didn't find what he felt he was there to find: Alex. His camp was not enough.

ps., what did you mean by "doubt as to Alex's real nature..."?

Charlie's question prompted me to read the rest of the thread (yes, I know, I'm posting without reading everything, baaa) as I figured this must have been discussed somewhere. I was referring to this:

Y'know, some people here had theorized that the floater was, in fact, Alex, but sort of a shell. Or rather, it was the body of "Alex Glaser" but the kid Frank actually found up on the mountain was now "Alex Ventoux". That is, Alex Glaser metaphorically and LITERALLY went up a mountain and came down a different person. I didn't think much of that idea at first, but now. . . . .It certainly would explain a lot. The fact that the floater was the same age, height, etc. as Alex Glaser for example. Maybe Frank did know that the floater really was the body of Alex Glaser, but he also knew that Alex was still alive up there in some form.

and I would add the floater had the same clothes as Alex. This is what I got out of this episode: a young man goes to find himself 'into the wild', he sheds all his personal belongings, he sheds his previous self, and he reaches a different level of understanding of himself and the world. Perhaps in the process this revelation consumes him, and his physical body can't withstand that -- his shell, Alex Glaser, dies, hence the floater. But Alex Ventoux lives. He allows hisself to be seen by Frank and his parents in order to provide some closure to the people he left behind (and help Frank in his own journey into the wild) -- but as soon as he's done that he disappears again. Perhaps he walked away, left for the mountains, or perhaps he vanished (as his body would have no physical reason to exist). It's all a bit spiritual mumbo-jumbo explained like this, but it's a beautiful story. It would really bother me if this were just a plot hole (which I think it isn't)!