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Kingdom Come


Guest WaveCrest

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Guest A Stranger
I'm probably in a minority of one when I say this, but I always thought of Kingdom Come as the first below-par Millenium episode. It's still miles ahead of most TV, but compared to the GREAT season1 episodes, I think it was a little 2-dimensional.

Perhaps it's the characterisation of the killer- ultimately, he's a stereotype harvested from any old semi-liberal cop show. The drama is formulaic: a handful of murders, and then the big showdown.

However, I really liked the scenes with Frank, Catherine and Jordan; the episode did a great job of broadening the show's protagonist(s). The dilemma of how to raise a child in such a cruel world is one that a lot of people can relate to, and the episode deals with it really well.

Sorry,

PMO :angel:

Ps. nice info Graham, Where do you get it all?

I agree. When I think of the idea, I like it. When I think of the characters I like it. It seems to have all the right aspects of a good episode but I just don't like it that much. I think, if anything it might show the line that MM was walking of not resorting to a "serial killer" show. Because without the right touches or elementst that few writers could bring, it just seems flat.

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Guest ModernDayMoriarty

'Kingdom Come' is one of my more favoured episodes from S1 even though I realise that it has many shortcomings as an episode. On the whole the episode is wonderfully shot and Galon Calloway is probably my favourite of all the SKOTW. However I find that the episode lags badly whenever Calloway isn't on screen; his acting and the drive behind the character is so intense and so darkly fascinating that everything else just seems to fade into the background. Possible reasons include the writing ability of Jorge Zamacoma and the character of Ardis.

As in 'The Wild and the Innocent', Zamacoma has an intriguing idea that he has great difficulty making into a consistently entertaining episode. Whilst the scenes with Billy and Maddie in 'The Wild..' and the scenes with Calloway in 'Kingdom..' are all pretty flawless, he seems to have great trouble fitting Frank into all this and sustaining interest as they try to find the killers. Both episodes flag horribly when the killers are off-screen and Zamacoma really doesn't makle good use of Frank or the Millennium Group (Peter Watts is largely superflous in 'The Wild...' - compare to say 'Force Majeure' or 'Walkabout' for instance).

In a similar vein, Ardis has very. very little to do and just doesn't make any significant contribution or impact. As a guest she is competing with Calloway and it is clear who comes out on top. Sparse writing for her character aside though, I just wasn't impressed with the actress (as I was unimpressed with Harriet Harris in 'Loin like a Hunting Flame'. Ultimately, I think PMO is right up to a point that this is the first episode that isn't up to the usual quality. Bear in mind that the run I saw went 'Pilot, Gehenna, Dead Letters, Kingdom Come. The Judge... However, it IS well worth watching for the performance by the man playing Calloway (I will have to find out his name). A flawed episode but still, when it's good, it's VERY good.

BTW, I think 'The Judge' is also pretty lame; it was the episode that I remember as thinking wasn't as good as what had gone before. It isn't bad but it's only of note really because of the excellent camerawork and superb performance by Marshal Bell as the JUdge.

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Guest se7en

...oh,i strongly disagree about Zamacona. His skills as a witer on "MM" were absolutely startling for me. In fact he and Teddy Mann were my favorite non-C.C. writers. They,IMO,not only knew how to construct a solid story but they virtually never condescended the viewer by bluntly spelling everything out,something S2 was not always good at. they were able to compose VERY intricate dialogue for characters that,for me,were very realistic and often times tragic. ESPECIALY The Wild & The Innocent which is without a doubt,for me, a watershed episode for the entire run of the show that was not "mytharc" oriented.

...fast forward to the present however,and Zamacona's "10-8" series and i cannot figure how someone so f***ing talented could actualy "create" a show that bad,let alone write for. thankfully this crappy show is not coming back as far as i know. S1,despite what a lot of the -"'but it was a serial killer of the week,dude"-people think,was too me a very intricate multilayered tighrope act of pure creativity and genius which could have ended up very differently if not for the people who worked on the show,both in front and behind the cameras.

~se7en

:ouro:

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Guest ModernDayMoriarty

I do like his episodes but they are hardly considered true classics because they are not consistently entertaining in my opinion. Frank and Ardis have no chemistry and she really doesn't say or do anything of note, ditto Watts in 'The Wild...' I will say also that the opener for 'Kingdom Come' starts very well but is pretty over the top at the end. I also think that the male characters in 'The Wild...' are too exaggerated to be truly believeable; selling children to buy a television... they are simply too callous with no redeeming features whatsoever. I know it is intended this way but it does stretch the point rather too far for me. Don't get me wrong, I consider both episodes to be very valuable additions to Season One, but they could have been better. And I think most people realise this; I have read many reviews that said that they liked it but had some problems with it that they couldn't pin down. And, as I have said many times, the end of 'Kingdom Come' is one of the absolute best moments in Millennium.

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Guest se7en

....over the top? there are PLENTY far worse people in this world who do far worse things EVERYDAY. A classic is a classic,and for me,and many others,these 2-eps are undeniably great. and if i listened or cared what reviewers have to say,i would be like most t.v. viewrs out there who often let others form thier opions for them. I know plenty who despise these eps but that doesn't mean i have to care what they think or say. my feeling is that they are essential viewing to the show,and most would agree.-(then again most also love anamnesis so..................??)

..but you know what they say about opinions.....? :~) (LOL)

...one of the rare times i've disagreed with almost any opinions you have written. -(NO!!!!!! :~)

PEACE,

~se7en

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Guest ModernDayMoriarty

But you aren't disagreeing really are you? We both agree they are very good episodes but I do feel that 'The Wild...' loses credibility by portraying all its main characters in such a negative light.

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but I do feel that 'The Wild...' loses credibility by portraying all its main characters in such a negative light.

Sorry...."Jose Chung" quote on the way......

"That's very downbeat." (Frank Black)

"Life is downbeat!" (Jose Chung)

The magority of the caracters in "The Wild" WERE very dark, negative caraters, which is one of the reasons I like this episode. It is more of a real-life, non-sugar-coated portrayal of real-life situations.

Also, remember that not ALL of the main caracters were portrayed in a negative light. What about ...."The Innocent." ?

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Guest ModernDayMoriarty

The MALE characters. And by negative I mean in such an over the top way. Please understand, I do like the episodes!

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Guest A Stranger
But you aren't disagreeing really are you? We both agree they are very good episodes but I do feel that 'The Wild...' loses credibility by portraying all its main characters in such a negative light.

Well, I think that is the main theme of the episode. Males abusing woman in in the south (and the north) is still a very real problem. This type of thing still exists and it's not like it wasn't addressed. "The only man in my life that ever did something nice for me." I still find that episode to be one of the most moving hours of TV I've ever seen. The score is amazing and Maddy's dialouges are very powerful. It has a very Americana type of feeling to I really like. I dont't really think that Peter was under-used, it simply was not his episode it was Maddy's. And Frank is protrayed well enough as the hero for humanity as I think he is in his best episodes. How can you not love the scene were Frank confronts Gilroy?

And is the show that Se7en is refering to, "10-18" a sort of light cop show with a hispanic guy as the main character and the guy from Ghostbusters as his hard-ass partner? I saw some of that show once and thought it was pretty enjoyable, if it's the show I'm thinking of.

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