Was Ricardo Clement an early Mabius/Legion?

[Guest Karnos]

I know it would be a huge plot hole you could drive the international space station through, seeing how Watts interviews Clement (and we suppose is then locked in jail) in Gehenna and yet they are elbow buddies in season three; however I saw Gehenna recently, just a few minute ago, and gods are both characters very similar: both of them have that eerie "I'm-an-evil-b*******-but-I-don't-care" look in their ayes and both of them never speak... I know Mabius probably wasn't even dreamt of that early in the series, but definitely the idea of Legion had been grounded since the get go.

But then again, if Mabius was a form of Legion, both Clement and Mabius are essentially the same character.

I don't know why I even wrote this thread; I guess I was amazed by their similarities... other manifestations of Legion are less "down to business" and more easy going, like Lucy.

Hell, I wish Chris Carter brought back this series…

[Guest ZeusFaber]

I don't agree with the idea that all manifestations of Legion are essentially the same character. I think what you're seeing here stems more from them being played by the same actor than anything else.

It doesn't make it a plot hole, just an interesting note.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

I don't agree with the idea that all manifestations of Legion are essentially the same character. I think what you're seeing here stems more from them being played by the same actor than anything else.

It doesn't make it a plot hole, just an interesting note.

I agree, I don't mean this as a complaint about the show, but an argument can be made that they should have selected a different actor to play Mabius. I have no problem with bringing actors back for a second, or even a third appearance in the same series. If they use an actor, for example, to play a small, non central, part as a detective in season 1, and then bring the same actor back to play a doctor in season 3, I think that's fine. There were quite a few times on MM, as well as XF and NYPD Blue, where it took many viewings before you figured out the same actor was used for more than one character. In the case of Mabius, however, you are talking about a central and very memorable character, both as Mabius, and as Clement, and using an extremely distinctive looking actor to play them both. I know it's tempting to use Bob Wilde, because he is so evil looking and perfect for the series, but in this case, I probably would have selected another actor.

[Guest Karnos]

I agree, I don't mean this as a complaint about the show, but an argument can be made that they should have selected a different actor to play Mabius. I have no problem with bringing actors back for a second, or even a third appearance in the same series. If they use an actor, for example, to play a small, non central, part as a detective in season 1, and then bring the same actor back to play a doctor in season 3, I think that's fine. There were quite a few times on MM, as well as XF and NYPD Blue, where it took many viewings before you figured out the same actor was used for more than one character. In the case of Mabius, however, you are talking about a central and very memorable character, both as Mabius, and as Clement, and using an extremely distinctive looking actor to play them both. I know it's tempting to use Bob Wilde, because he is so evil looking and perfect for the series, but in this case, I probably would have selected another actor.

Yeah, I also thought my feelings comes from both characters being played by the same actor, an actor difficult to forget for both his eerie roles and because he looks a lot like a former teacher of mine (with a few years up his sleeve), but I think they should have thought it better before casting him again in his role as Mabius, like MiB said.

But then again, Legion means many, so who knows, perhaps when Mabius was conceived, whoever came up with him, thought it might be an interesting form of trivia and plain fun plot speculation to throw in the same actor.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

I have no problem with multiple casting at all. I don't think it makes any difference, since your attention should be on the show and the characters not the face of the actor. Imagine repotory theatre where the same cast go from production to production in all kinds of different roles -- it's not anything to be concerned about.

In fact, it quite frustrates me when people get overly hung up on this. I remember some discussions amongst X-Files fans who made some rediculous complaints that Mulder and Scully looked "stupid" for not "recognising" Terry O'Quinn in his multiple roles on the show and the movie. Utterly ludicrous. Actors are actors, and their characters are completely different entities.

[Guest Karnos]

I have no problem with multiple casting at all. I don't think it makes any difference, since your attention should be on the show and the characters not the face of the actor. Imagine repotory theatre where the same cast go from production to production in all kinds of different roles -- it's not anything to be concerned about.

In fact, it quite frustrates me when people get overly hung up on this. I remember some discussions amongst X-Files fans who made some rediculous complaints that Mulder and Scully looked "stupid" for not "recognising" Terry O'Quinn in his multiple roles on the show and the movie. Utterly ludicrous. Actors are actors, and their characters are completely different entities.

Jesus, relax... talk about taking things seriously.

And my attention and appreciation of the show can be placed in whatever inane aspect of it I so much desire, so get that straight.

Edited March 25, 2007 by Karnos

[Guest Moriarty]

Jesus, relax... talk about taking things seriously.

And my attention and appreciation of the show can be placed in whatever inane aspect of it I so much desire, so get that straight.

And maybe you should cool things down and appreciate other people's opinion don't you think so?

Edited March 25, 2007 by Moriarty

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

I have no problem with multiple casting at all. I don't think it makes any difference, since your attention should be on the show and the characters not the face of the actor. Imagine repotory theatre where the same cast go from production to production in all kinds of different roles -- it's not anything to be concerned about.

In fact, it quite frustrates me when people get overly hung up on this. I remember some discussions amongst X-Files fans who made some rediculous complaints that Mulder and Scully looked "stupid" for not "recognising" Terry O'Quinn in his multiple roles on the show and the movie. Utterly ludicrous. Actors are actors, and their characters are completely different entities.

As mentioned previously, I don't have a particular problem with recasting actors either. My only point is that it is going to bring up issues with certain viewers when they use one actor for two high profile characters on the same series, especially when the actor is so recognizable and distinctive. Personally, I never really contemplated the dual roles of Bob Wilde on the show, but clearly we have seen where other viewers have had issues with this practice. With Terry O'Quinn and Bob Wilde, regular viewers are going to make the connection. Some will think it's fine, some will be indifferent, and some will have serious problems with it. Everyone has a different view of things.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

Jesus, relax... talk about taking things seriously.

And my attention and appreciation of the show can be placed in whatever inane aspect of it I so much desire, so get that straight.

Where did that come from?

I was describing my frustration with militant X-Files fans regarding the episodes "Aubrey", "Trust No 1" and the movie. That had nothing to do with your attention or appreication of Millennium.

I don't think you'll get very far in this otherwise pleasant community with that kind of adversarial attitude.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

As mentioned previously, I don't have a particular problem with recasting actors either. My only point is that it is going to bring up issues with certain viewers when they use one actor for two high profile characters on the same series ... Some will think it's fine, some will be indifferent, and some will have serious problems with it. Everyone has a different view of things.

Indeed, casting issues are inevitably going to provoke different reactions from different people, but my only point is that sometimes people can get overly drawn in and not recognise the difference between an actor and a character.

In the case of the discussion regarding Bob Wilde we have here, it's just a question of personal opinion regarding the choice of using the same actor (at least it was). The example I gave from The X-Files is different though, because the particular fans in question were suggesting that the characters of Mulder and Scully should recognise Terry O'Quinn's character from his previous appearances in different roles -- that's not just an opinion on whether the casting was a good idea, that's a basic lack of understanding that the characters are not the same.