Disgusting Rape Torture in West Virginia

[liberty]

I absolutely agree with most of you post... but let's calm down for a bit. As terrible as this crime was... I don't think anyone deserves to be treated as the victim was in this case.

We agree on that, yet the history teaches us that the truth is totally different. How many times have we seen raped girls treated like a mere slut just because they have been raped !!!???

@Raven

Is not anger anymore Raven. Is more disgust and impotence to change something in our mentality

[Guest Laurent.]

I'm not going to argue on most of the points that have been raised because I know that a prison does cost quite a lot of money. What I'm saying is that I'm ready to pay this price to avoid any more crime AND live without the blood of anyone on my hands. Furthermore, as one of Quebec's best writers said (free translation of a partly memorized quote): "What do we know about death? We might try to punish them and ending up giving them the most wonderful gift." I guess this just depends on one's personal values... justice, life... they all have their respective worth so I'm not judging anyone's opinion on the subject. This discussion could (and will, on a larger scale) probably go on forever.

By the way, I agree that sentences almost never reflects the harm done... just recently we had a father who raped his own daughter every two or three days over a period of 6 years and he got a 2 years sentence. I'm pretty damn sure that life in prison is not as hard as the hell that his daughter went through and yet he gets 4 years less then what she had to endure.

@ liberty:

How many times have we seen raped girls treated like a mere slut just because they have been raped !!!???

Sadly, that was one of the point on which we agreed.

[hippyroo]

You may think you don't have blood on your hands, but you certainally have your hands in my pocket to pay for your philosophy. In otherwords it's okay to you to take money from me to pay for murderers to live out their lives, even if I would rather not.

This is not meant as a personally attack or as anything emotionally driven. I like talking about beleifs and logical consquences of our thoughts.

Another issue is whether or not the state killing a criminal is another crime. You seem to think the taking of any human life is a crime?

[Darth Paul]

My, this has started quite the debate, hasn't it? The punishment never sems to fit the crime and I don't claim to have a workable solution. We'll just have to wait to see if anything resembling justice is done here.

[Guest Laurent.]

You seem to think the taking of any human life is a crime?

Definitely... I think that people in favor of capital punishment do not believe that humans in general are capable of changing... I know some people aren't but you can never know that beforehand. Plus, the only reason for which I can accept the killing of another human being is self defense... some guy attacks you, you defend yourself and he dies... better him than you I guess; but in the case of a caught criminal, we have another option. And I'm pretty sure the man above would not accept "to save money" had a good excuse to murder.

If we accept killing in the name of justice are we going to be clement to a murderer who can justify his acts? I don't believe anyone should have the right to decide when someone's life is over; especially considering the frequent errors of human judgment and of the justice system.

"It is better that ten guilty escape than one innocent suffer." -Romans (ch. XIII, v. 7)

Or maybe "It is better that ten guilty rust in prison on our expenses than one innocent die"

I know that we could bring a lot of other point of view on this subject so maybe someone here will be able to make me change my mind but as of now I think I have summarized my opinion quite well.

[hippyroo]

"If we accept killing in the name of justice are we going to be clement to a murderer who can justify his acts? I don't believe anyone should have the right to decide when someone's life is over;"

This contradicts your idea that self defense justifies taking a life?

Punishment isn't always about the criminal and his/her victim(s). Seeing a child molester or murder getting a long prison sentence won't deter as well as knowing, without any doubt, that if you get caught for murder or rape you WILL be put to death would lower the number of such crimes. The chance that an innocent person will be punished is a heavy burden upon the state that might make the judicial system less of a game of strategy and culture of lesser pleas and deals that it is.

[Guest Laurent.]

I guess I don't see self-defense as a decision to end someone's life... I was more thinking of situations where that choice/conclusion is forced.

Punishment isn't always about the criminal and his/her victim(s). Seeing a child molester or murder getting a long prison sentence won't deter as well as knowing, without any doubt, that if you get caught for murder or rape you WILL be put to death would lower the number of such crimes

Do you really think that's true? I think child molesters usually act out on strong impulsions, they don't necessarily weight the pros and the cons... those who give more thoughts to it usually think more about how not to get caught and less on IF it's worth the risks.

Then again, I'm no Frank Black... your opinion on criminal psychology is as good as mine... finding a way to diminish the number of such crimes is really a tough question. But can harsher punishments be the solution? I doubt it.

[The Old Man]

... Also, some inmates make those who are getting out of prison "better criminals". ...

I'd agree with that, its completely true.

Lots of offenders come out of prison with more contacts than when they went in, whether it be people who act as 'fences' who get rid of stolen property, paedophile ring contacts or drug dealer contacts etc. Trouble is, you can't do much about it.

Please all, try and keep this on 'the awful topic' and steer away from the personal side of things.

[hippyroo]

Why do we punish criminals?

To reform them?

To stop them from doing it again?

To punish them?

To get them repay society?

[Guest ein042]

Why do we punish criminals?

To reform them?

To stop them from doing it again?

To punish them?

To get them repay society?

The past punishment for these individuals, who have a long list of violent criminal backgrounds doesn't seem to have affected their behavior in this situation.

These people are chronic offenders and unfortunately forces are gathering to pursue this as a hate crime. Which on the surface looks political to me. There IS no federal statute that makes hating someone a crime. The charges would amount to roughly 10 years. Stiffer penalties could be achieved in the state courts but looking at the record so far, you wonder if it's enough.