Thirteen Years Later...

[Guest Jim McLean]

I thought, having watched 13 years later, I'd start a new topic rather than carry a 3 year old one.

First off, to which, it was poor, but the payoff (which was fairly predictable to some degree) does give it a more lenient framework. This isn't quite what happened, this isn't quite as it was, and thereby, the liberties in humour, inane plot and out of character behaviour (Frank's big gun) becomes somewhat less painful and a more enjoyable viewing.

In some ways, this is far more Millennium than season two's comedies simply because it doesn't have to be wedged into the stylistic dark, realism motif the show embraces. While "Satan get behind me" was whimsical, it was in its own way, a serious take on the spiritual side; there was no implication that this wasn't real nor was it symbolic - what you saw is what you got. "Jose Chung.." was also one that played a liberal game with the format and style, risking self mockery, and again COULD be argued - from a purist perspective - to being far more out of odds than "13 years later" is perceived to be.

Personally, I enjoyed all three of the above for one reason or another; I enjoyed the humour, the wry nod to the sow itself and the chance to see the format pushed somewhat in all three, however in terms of the "realism" of Millennium, "13 Years Later" is safe; we can accept the rather "Hollywood" depiction of film making and the characters behind the lens, we can also accept the silly plot and lazy horror movie twists this episode offers. We can even except what a bloody mess the whole thing is.

It's an oddity. It frustrates because it doesn't just mock horror, in turn, it breaks the illusion by placing a show within a film, and thereby becomes a reminder of the nature of the beast; this a story made by people operating positions the show itself mocks, but at the same time, it can be enjoyed for its silliness without this more extreme silliness that exists - far beyond "Satan" and "Jose Chung" damaging the show. I always found the slight swipe at the Frank/Peter crime scene in "Jose Chung" was a dangerous move because it did break that rule of fiction; don't mock yourself if you intend to be taken serious, and likewise, with the threat of Legion, "Satan.." didn't do much to help the fearful imagery of demons (also the attack on censors was a little indulgent, silly and, well, embarrassing - particularly the X-Files pastiche).

Thirteen Years Later is a funny beast, on one had its so out of character, and the story so openly exposes the conceptual formulas in any horror, it can to some extent damage the critical viewing of Millennium far more than any other show. It's so played for laughs it risks becoming a stigma on the shows dignity, yet its intentionally avoidance of canocity makes it technically beyond reproach; its not canon, its fun.

I can see why this episode would split fans. Personally, given how final seasons of TV shows normally, to pun that lazy nerd-come-journalistic term, "Jump the Shark", one could almost be forgiven into believing the bilge, but thankfully Millennium holds integrity.

An unsettling watch, but not for the usual Millennium reasons. I'm sure I'll enjoy this more on a second watch, knowing that this is just a giggle rather than a drop in standards.

Yes, a bit of a flip flop of ideas in this post, but its more a typed muse on the issue rather than looking to praise/condemn the episode.

[The Old Man]

I didn't like this episode at all to be honest!

[ethsnafu]

A lovely review which I shall abstain from tainting as I don't like this episode at all and cringe into my popcorn on every viewing.

[Guest Jim McLean]

A lovely review which I shall abstain from tainting as I don't like this episode at all and cringe into my popcorn on every viewing.

Lol. I think its a fair point. I did find it a hard watch, regardless of the final sigh of relief as the events are clarified to be distorted by the imagination of the killer. It is like watching Millennium, naked, where its regal and unusual clothes have been removed and something simple and unimaginative has taken its place. It feels like how Millennium would be if it was done by a lesser company, in fact, as if it was done by the company doing the film in the show. Crass, silly and unbelievable.

But again, at least that was the point. How well it will fair for me on a second watch remains to be scene.

So how much of the tale do you figure as true?

[Guest Heath328]

Has anyone mentioned the gratuitous use of KISS?

Talk about chewing scenery ...

And was it necessary to allow the band precious airtime to play a complete version of "Psycho Circus?"

When this episode first aired on Fox, it was part of a special Friday night Halloween promo that prominently featured KISS. That was the ONLY reason why the band was written into the show, and I think the episode suffered for it.

Everything else was entertaining, especially Frank's summations on the horror films Emma wanted him to watch with her to figure out the killer's moves. Frank's "profiled" of each movie gives the viewer food for thought on just how stupid so many horror films really are when you stop and think about the plots (or lack thereof).

I really would have rather seen more moments like those instead of giving KISS its umpteenth opportunity to relaunch itself.

[4th Horseman]

Has anyone mentioned the gratuitous use of KISS?

Talk about chewing scenery ...

And was it necessary to allow the band precious airtime to play a complete version of "Psycho Circus?"

When this episode first aired on Fox, it was part of a special Friday night Halloween promo that prominently featured KISS. That was the ONLY reason why the band was written into the show, and I think the episode suffered for it.

Everything else was entertaining, especially Frank's summations on the horror films Emma wanted him to watch with her to figure out the killer's moves. Frank's "profiled" of each movie gives the viewer food for thought on just how stupid so many horror films really are when you stop and think about the plots (or lack thereof).

I really would have rather seen more moments like those instead of giving KISS its umpteenth opportunity to relaunch itself.

Heath328 - a belated welcome to the board. Its refreshing to see new people light here and carry themselves so articulately..well done..I have been away for a while, but just had to comment on this particular episode. The obvious conclusion is that 13 Years Later is most certainly one of the more "lacking" episodes of the entire 3 seasons. With that being said, and after the dross has been burned away, it is, unfortunately, as you say, a mark of Gene Simmon's commercial genius in getting Kiss re-exposed to the public. Coming from a man who once said he could "outrun God" if there was a profit at the end, its blatently and shamelessly obvious that the entire episode was used for Kiss's benefit. Like yourself, there was a small amount of humor that i found to be enjoyable, Frank sitting with Emma watching those classic horror movies on the sofa, commenting almost arrogantly about the reasons behind the killer's urges.. In regards to "Psycho Circus", what was presented on the show was an abridged version, it was not the entire song...not that i am a Kiss fan, but thats another topic...

4th Horseman..

[ethsnafu]

Great points as ever 4th.

Thanks, Heath, for the the information regarding the 'Fox Halloween Promo', it is titbits like this that I really enjoy hearing about.

Now I am not the most astute of viewers, caveats and in-jokes have a habit of floating past me like clouds, but Frank and Emma's gore fest on the sofa was one those 'lightbulb' moments for me that signaled that all was not well with the narrative, I kinda guessed at this point that some alternative viewpoint was being shown to us. Frank really didn't have that kind of relationship with people, he was frequently reticent around people who penetrated his personal zone and there were a couple of telling scenes with Lara, a couple of gulps and jump-backs, that revealed him to be a man very considered in the way he related to others. He enjoyed a mentoring role with Emma but there was nothing to suggest he would entertain anything flippant or cosy in their relationship, confirmation of such came at the height of her descent into the bowels of the 'Group' when he proclaimed that he didn't care what she did or what happened to her. It is an enjoyable fantasy sequence to see them lolling around and glibly discussing the modus-operandi of the slasher-icons but it was a bit of spoiler to be honest but a nicely done one all same.

[Guest Heath328]

Great points as ever 4th.

Thanks, Heath, for the the information regarding the 'Fox Halloween Promo', it is titbits like this that I really enjoy hearing about.

Now I am not the most astute of viewers, caveats and in-jokes have a habit of floating past me like clouds, but Frank and Emma's gore fest on the sofa was one those 'lightbulb' moments for me that signaled that all was not well with the narrative, I kinda guessed at this point that some alternative viewpoint was being shown to us. Frank really didn't have that kind of relationship with people, he was frequently reticent around people who penetrated his personal zone and there were a couple of telling scenes with Lara, a couple of gulps and jump-backs, that revealed him to be a man very considered in the way he related to others. He enjoyed a mentoring role with Emma but there was nothing to suggest he would entertain anything flippant or cosy in their relationship, confirmation of such came at the height of her descent into the bowels of the 'Group' when he proclaimed that he didn't care what she did or what happened to her. It is an enjoyable fantasy sequence to see them lolling around and glibly discussing the modus-operandi of the slasher-icons but it was a bit of spoiler to be honest but a nicely done one all same.

I think they might have started out writing the episode with the intent of having a killer profile and explore Frank's wounded psyche (an idea that was better executed in "Seven and One"). The idea might have been to bring Emma and Frank closer together as partners by having circumstances force him to share painful parts of his life. Then somewhere along the line, Fox's Halloween hoo-ha entered the picture.

I can just hear the suits banging on the writers' doors: "We got KISS! We got KISS!"

[4th Horseman]

I think they might have started out writing the episode with the intent of having a killer profile and explore Frank's wounded psyche (an idea that was better executed in "Seven and One"). The idea might have been to bring Emma and Frank closer together as partners by having circumstances force him to share painful parts of his life. Then somewhere along the line, Fox's Halloween hoo-ha entered the picture.

I can just hear the suits banging on the writers' doors: "We got KISS! We got KISS!"

Good point...and remember, the history behind Kiss is one fraught with both unsubstantiated hysteria, rumor, and accusations that had parents scared to death that their children were all going to become devil worshippers, or worse. The following is presented, not as a fan of their music (dont get me started on that), but as a guideline whereby one could fathom them appearing on the Halloween episode of MillenniuM. Remember the quote before the show?? "Never believe anything you see on Halloween"??

The makeup, which if ANYONE takes the time to do the research on are modeled after superhero characters or monsters. Each band member is designed to take on the personification of a certain comic book style character. Simmons was The Demon, Paul Stanley was The StarChild, Ace Frehley was The SpaceMan, and Peter Criss was The Cat Man..

Simmon's costume as an amalgamation of multiple characters. Its wings are modeled after Black Bolt, the lizard boots are in honor of Godzilla, and his makup is done as a nod to Phantom of the Opera, all being some of his childhood favorites. The blood he spit was a mixture of egg yolks, melted butter, ketchup, yogurt and food coloring. He is also one of the world's top fire-spitters, hitting 15 feet. The world record is 20 feet. But put these together and you have a recipe, (get it, recipe), for the imagination to run a bit wild. Simmons has, in the past, due to the inherent demonic presence he gave off on stage, in particular the spitting of the blood, which any rational, sane person would identify immediately as someone who enjoys its taste..also been accussed of Satanic worship. To this day he neither denies nor confirms it, mostly due to the publicity it brings, "Let the people wonder" is his statement on the issue. There are also rumors that KISS stands for Kids In Satan's Service which started after a frivilous comment Simmons made in an interview with Circus magazine where he said he wondered sometimes what human flesh tastes like. Of course, it also didnt help matters when all 4 members of KISS mixed their blood with the red ink that was used in printing the first Kiss comicbook, or when the S's were fashioned after the Sig Rune, used by the Nazi's paramilitary SS unit, a symbol that has been illegal to display in Germany since 1979, requiring all of KISS's albums released since then to be modified to erase the Sig Rune reference and to be replaced with normal S's..

Sorry to get off the point here, but perhaps with this little bit of background information, it is much easier to see that KISS was actually a very good choice for a Halloween show, remember the quote!!!...and also how it could have given parents at the time a bit of the heebe-geebes.....

4th Horseman

[ethsnafu]

Gosh 4th you know your 'Kiss' and my understanding of the episode is enriched because of it.

I concur that all the trimmings of Halloween make Kiss the ideal musical icon to plant amongst the doings but my irk lies not in the decision to use them but with the endlessness of their influence. Consider that some posters have invoked such fury with regards to the snippets and jingles of Bobby Darin and I can fully understand why, such flecks of reality jar the viewer from a uniquely composed world with its own reality and soundtrack. Of course, in this instance, it could be considered that Millennium remains untainted as a Dallas-like-shower-scene bandages our wounds and reminds it was just a dream but if you wish to venture into the irreverent then there has to be a subtlety to it to make it worthwhile.

Darin Morgan changed the way the profound was written, his skillful, rich narratives joined forces with sarcasm, relentless gags and a flavour of the 'Carry On Films' and understandably his style aroused the 1013 chroniclers to a new and almost Lewis-Carroll-esque fictive universe. As a scientist should never dabble with oil paints and artists should leave test tubes alone, this energy was channeled by those who did not fully understand the soft, sardonic, depth of his work and ill considered stories such as these emerged.

There are numerous elements that are intelligent and a few moments where humour rises above the blatant and takes on a more comedic and intelligent-comedic slant but overall using Kiss, a horror influenced band, to represent horror was less effective that using the Carpenters as a soundtrack to rabid-dog-dismemberment.

I guess I ain't a fan of the obvious.