Question about S1 in general

[Guest massofspikes]

As I'll soon explain in the introductory post I'm working on, various circumstances led me to purchase the three seasons of MillenniuM in reverse order: s3, then s2, and s1, which I just bought yesterday. I'd never seen a single episode while the show was on the air, so the MM phenomenon was/is all still relatively new to me, and still somewhat confusing from time to time. As for s1, so far, I've only watched "The Pilot/The Frenchman" and some of "Gehanna." My question is this: in s2, Frank is portrayed as a potential member of the Millennium Group, being tested in various ways to gauge his worthiness; but, unless I'm missing something, he seems to be a full-fledged member in s1, working with Peter Watts, etc. Is he merely consulting the consultants, or am I wrong in my interpretation (or does something happen later in the season that explains this [seeming] discrepancy?)

Edited January 26, 2008 by massofspikes

[Guest Laurent.]

In season one Frank is merely a consultant on some Millennium Group cases.

BLETCHER: A couple of my detectives did (spoke to Peter Watts). He told them he was part of something called The Millennium Group.

FRANK: Yeah.

BLETCHER: Is that who you're doing this consulting for?

FRANK: Mm-hmm.

In season two the Group decides to slowly bring him in their theological works and theories as a potential member or candidate. Frank never was accepted as a real member of the Group.

Quick edit: Welcome to the board!!!

Edited January 26, 2008 by Laurent.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

in s2, Frank is portrayed as a potential member of the Millennium Group, being tested in various ways to gauge his worthiness; but, unless I'm missing something, he seems to be a full-fledged member in s1, working with Peter Watts, etc. Is he merely consulting the consultants, or am I wrong in my interpretation (or does something happen later in the season that explains this [seeming] discrepancy?)

Welcome, massofspikes. To answer your question, no explanation is ever given. It's a retcon by Morgan & Wong.

I disagree with the laren's interpretation of the piece of dialogue he points to. It was always clear to me that in S1, Frank is a member of the Millennium Group, and the Millennium Group consult for law enforcement. Simple as that. There is no chain of command, no candidates, patrons, elders or "Old Men" in S1.

[Guest massofspikes]

I can see some combination of both answers helpfully provided (thank you, btw) coming together to form something approaching an answer that isn't quite a full-bore retcon. (Warning: some imagination and suspension of disbelief may be required.) In "The Beginning and the End," Peter tells Frank that The Group feels he's now considered ready to be privy to--and I paraphrase--more sensitive truths held by The Group, hence the "Soylent green is people" voice-activation code programmed into his computer. In S1, he may have been a lower-case-m "member" in some capacity, unaware that there existed a "higher plane"--for lack of a better term--within The Group. And then, beginning in S2...well, you know what happened. I still find it hard to believe that the S2 writers would so cavalierly junk the S1 continuity. I guess I refuse to accept it. On one hand, it's somewhat intriguing to try and piece together the seeming incongruities; on the other, it's frustrating that such a responsibility was left to fans. Or, as with so many of Kafka's unfinished work, do the gaps make this body of work more interesting?

Edited January 26, 2008 by massofspikes

[hippyroo]

Maybe the MLLM group is like the Church of Latter Day Saints. You can be a member of the church, but you aren't a "real temple Mormon" until you go through a set of rights and rituals. Eventually you get your special apron and underwear. I'm not making this up! If you go to a funeral for a temple mormon you see some of it. This also fits in with the knights templar and mason ideas that sometimes wind up on MLLM. Many critics of the Mormons point out that it seems that its founder stole a lot of stuff from the Masons for his new church.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

In season one Frank is merely a consultant on some Millennium Group cases.

In season two the Group decides to slowly bring him in their theological works and theories as a potential member or candidate. Frank never was accepted as a real member of the Group.

Quick edit: Welcome to the board!!!

I agree, Frank was never a group member. In season 1, he was a consultant for the group. In season two, we see episodes like Luminary, where he sits in the middle of the group members in what he refers to as the "trick bag", and is questioned by group members. This, to me, is clearly a meeting for them to consider Frank, a candidate, as a group member. From that point on, Frank's relationship with the group only gets worse. My interpretation was that Peter was chosen to work with Frank and to groom Frank as a candidate in season one, but Frank was never an official group member. Frank even refers to himself as doing some "consulting" when talking to the neighbor in the Pilot. In Dead Letters, we see the group team Frank up with Jim Horn, who is doing similar work for the group, but who Peter refers to as someone who is "being considered as a member". To me, it's clear that Frank is also a candidate who is being considered as a member in season one. And yes, welcome to the board.

[ethsnafu]

May I add a third welcome to the board 'massofspikes'. Here's hoping you enjoy our Apocalyptic playground as much as we all do.

I agree with 'Bliss' and 'Laran' that Frank barely penetrated the inner sanctum of the 'Group'. S1 is awash with incongruities - a consultancy group that bothers itself with Biblical prose, eschatology and demonism whilst proposing itself as nothing more complex than a simple gaggle of FBI retiree who had nothing arcane in mind when they embellished their calling cards with an age old alchemical symbol.

Admittedly Morgan and Wong autopsied the group and gave it a fuller structure but it was reasonable that they did so. The average law enforcement agent is not converse with theology so it seems natural that this depiction was give coherence and reason.

Season Two merely advances Frank's journey and gives depth to a 'Group' that required it. Whilst it may be difficult to accept some of the changes it is essential that we accept them. The Millennium Group is what we have come to know and there is little to be gained in fighting its depiction.

[hippyroo]

wait!!!!!!!!!! "The average law enforcement agent is not converse with theology " how do you know this to be true? I know at least a dozen cops and all but one call themsleves Christian and can discuss theology (a lot of interest in Islamic theology latel}

with ease. I know I have a small sample, but it does cause me doubt your generlization that the average lawman in not converse with theology.

I do agree that Frank never became an confirmed member of the group. He was stuck between the temptations offered by Lucy and the weak hope offered by the group; but our hero only gave in to his tempations once - to kill the P.M.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

wait!!!!!!!!!! "The average law enforcement agent is not converse with theology " how do you know this to be true? I know at least a dozen cops and all but one call themsleves Christian and can discuss theology (a lot of interest in Islamic theology latel}

with ease. I know I have a small sample, but it does cause me doubt your generlization that the average lawman in not converse with theology.

I do agree that Frank never became an confirmed member of the group. He was stuck between the temptations offered by Lucy and the weak hope offered by the group; but our hero only gave in to his tempations once - to kill the P.M.

Not to be argumentative, but I guess it all comes down to the company you keep, and the kind of people you happen to associate with. I, admittedly, know less than a dozen cops, but between about half a dozen cops I know, and the people they associate with, I have to say that theology is rarely, if ever, the topic of conversation, profound knowledge, or great contemplation. In fact, among the Christians I know, theology is rarely, if ever the topic of such. From my personal experience, people who call themselves Christian may go to church on Sunday, sometimes, but rarely get into deep discussion or understanding about it, and even more rarely conduct their lives in a manner that is consistent with the beliefs that are supposed to be living by. Therefore, when someone says that "The average law enforcement agent is not converse with theology", I find it to be an accurate and realistic assessment of the way things really are. I don't, for a second, dispute that you have been exposed to a completely different set of circumstances and people, but to me, personally, Eths view of reality rings true and is my own perception of reality. Like I said though, it probably boils down to the kind of people you associate with. I do agree, however, with you assessment that Frank never became a confirmed member.

[Guest Moriarty]

I agree with Zeus on this one. There were no ranks in the first season. Frank was a member of the MM group and they were consulting for law enforcement. Morgan and Wong came with the idea of an old man and of ranks in the second season. Chris Carter his view on the group was totally different. He saw them as the Academy Group, a real group of former FBI-agents who helped to solve crimes. They are interviewed on the dvd's of the first season.