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Did Frank really go "too far" in killing the Polaroid Stalker?

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Gunslinger....dammit its good to have you back....i know i have missed you, and i am glad our conversation today brought you here. Thanks for once again giving us that absolutely stellar insight. Perhaps with your input we see how truely impossible the situation can be from the very beginning, a sojurn from the fork in the road which leads to a dead end in both directions...again, your re-appearance is like that first scent of spring in the air...WELCOME HOME MY GOOD FRIEND...and lets make plans on getting together when i visit my parents over Easter..that bar-b-que sounds delightful...

Mark (4th Horseman)

Always good to hear from you sir, DBSD, Ethsnafu, all of you, thanks for the warm welcome back, like I said before no excuses for my absence other than the speed of life tends to roll me up more than it used to, time slips, or as my favorite author might write, "time is different over here." I truly believe that there is no upside to having to take a human life, if there is any solace to be had, especially in Frank's case, it is that even as he is driving away from the yellow house, in his rearview mirror he can see Catherine, and in that, knowing that at least she is alive, able to see his wife, the mother of his child, knowing that she will wake up the next morning, that in itself, in my opinion, justifies the means to the ends, even if Catherine has trouble understanding that point. As for myself, I would love to be able to sit here and type that there would be no hesitation, no trouble making the decision about what to do if my wife or child were confronted by evil, by a force that was intent on taking them away from me. I can say with all confidence that I would shoot until the magazine was empty sitting here now, safe, with the doors locked and my sleeping wife and child in plain sight, all is well, but, maybe because of the nature of my job, maybe because of my paranoid nature of my fellow human being, I cannot EVER stop wondering about who or what is lurking just beyond the porch light of my back patio, or just beyond the tree line of my property. Who may be watching, waiting, for me to let down my guard? Someone I helped put in prison who has tracked me down? Someone who is dead set on making me pay before he turns a gun on himself. I have always identified with Frank on these points, to never, ever, truly be comfortable in your surroundings. I admit, my instincts and senses are not at all what they used to be, to be ready at all times for anything is truly a herculean task, tasking both your mind and body and burning you out on the world in general. This is who we are......it's good to be back. Gunslinger

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Gunslinger....dammit its good to have you back....i know i have missed you, and i am glad our conversation today brought you here. Thanks for once again giving us that absolutely stellar insight. Perhaps with your input we see how truely impossible the situation can be from the very beginning, a sojurn from the fork in the road which leads to a dead end in both directions...again, your re-appearance is like that first scent of spring in the air...WELCOME HOME MY GOOD FRIEND...and lets make plans on getting together when i visit my parents over Easter..that bar-b-que sounds delightful...

Mark (4th Horseman)

As usual 4th, your points always get me thinking, dangerous terrain for me..lol, On another point, and this just may be food for thought, the very last thing I would want to do after having to take a human life would be to drive off and get a motel room by myself. that is not an option in law enforcement. when you have been in a life threatening situation, again, never in a gunbattle myself, but close a few times, the very last thing you want is "by myself" time, maybe for a few minutes to throw up or clean the urine off of yourself, but in actuality, the best thing you can have is a small strong support group, that you can just spout off and blow off steam about what just happened. The best therapy? I will swear to this, is to tell your side of the story as many times to as many of your comrades that you can trust. only they can relate to how you are feeling and what you have just went through. I am absolutely not trying to alienate anyone or be elitist to any degree, but if you are a stock broker and just lost a million dollars on a trade, explaining the particulars to your brother who sells cars or someone else in a non stock broker related field can sometimes just be frustrating. Having a certain ethos, esprit de corp, if you will, is often the best medicine. You are not looked upon as crazy or psychotic for spewing off about what just happened, you are only looked as human by people who face the same challenges on a daily basis. Frank should have been getting visits and calls from old FBI friends, Watts, or anyone else who cared about him, and as far as Catherine giving him the ole heave-ho out the door?, that would be tantamount to telling him to go ahead and off himself next........

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As usual 4th, your points always get me thinking, dangerous terrain for me..lol, On another point, and this just may be food for thought, the very last thing I would want to do after having to take a human life would be to drive off and get a motel room by myself. that is not an option in law enforcement. when you have been in a life threatening situation, again, never in a gunbattle myself, but close a few times, the very last thing you want is "by myself" time, maybe for a few minutes to throw up or clean the urine off of yourself, but in actuality, the best thing you can have is a small strong support group, that you can just spout off and blow off steam about what just happened. The best therapy? I will swear to this, is to tell your side of the story as many times to as many of your comrades that you can trust. only they can relate to how you are feeling and what you have just went through. I am absolutely not trying to alienate anyone or be elitist to any degree, but if you are a stock broker and just lost a million dollars on a trade, explaining the particulars to your brother who sells cars or someone else in a non stock broker related field can sometimes just be frustrating. Having a certain ethos, esprit de corp, if you will, is often the best medicine. You are not looked upon as crazy or psychotic for spewing off about what just happened, you are only looked as human by people who face the same challenges on a daily basis. Frank should have been getting visits and calls from old FBI friends, Watts, or anyone else who cared about him, and as far as Catherine giving him the ole heave-ho out the door?, that would be tantamount to telling him to go ahead and off himself next........
Slinger...never feel you are going to alienate anyone. Only a fool would scoff at what you have posted. Unfortunately, there is a growling malaise and hardening lack of respect for law enforcement these days. It all sounds melodramatic to those who are clueless about how you and your fellow officers get up every day and wonder when you walk out the door, if, you are going to be coming home, or buried in a pine box. No one can understand just what stress that incurs, unless you are directly involved....

by the way, its a go for that bar-b-que...we bought our plane tickets tonight and will be at my folks from 3/21 to 3/28..looking forward to seeing you and your family again...

4th Horseman...

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Dear Gunslinger :hiya: ,

Please do not apologise or think that people would even consider you elitist. Opinions far from alienate and are always great impetus for debate. As you are, as far as I know, the only member of Law Enforcement Officer on the board I believe you have had nothing but a rapturous audience, I certainly have seen no evidence of anything else?

When Mark PM'd me to say that he asked you to this thread I though it a singularly spectacular idea and hoped that such a device would become a regular part of our discussion (4th has all the best ideas lol.) I don't think anyone would derive anything but great admiration and respect from what you wrote, primary evidence is inarguable and thoroughly welcome because of it.

Rest assure you are in the company of those who make no presumptions or judgements, have never nor would ever scoff nor have anything but unquestioned respect for the job you do. This is not the sort of place that welcomes people desirous of anything else.

As Mark notes only a fool would do so and I would defend to the death the idea that there are fools here. :death:

I have actually printed off what you wrote to guide me when writing for VS6, I can think of no better way to ensure I am respectful of the topic than using your words as a constant reminder.

I cannot thank you enough for such an illuminating conversation.

Best wishes and respect as always,

Eth!

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"As Mark notes only a fool would do so and I would defend to the death the idea that there are fools here."---

I second that Eth...i dont want my posts to sound like a shill for law enforcement. However, for them as well as members of our military, i have nothing but the highest degree of respect...Put in the perspective of "real life" we all face that shroud of uncertainty, and everyday functionaries like myself are subject to the whims of fate just like anyone else. The difference is, i did not choose to put myself knowingly into such a position. Imagine an officer sitting in his car as he leaves for work, looking at the house that is his family's sanctuary, and having to entertain thoughts that this might very well be the last time he sees it. I work in a building with no windows surrounded by two, not one, but two rows of concertina wire and electric gates. Cameras abound in our parking lot for the surrounding neighborhood is known as the most violent area in all of San Fernando Valley, a 345 square mile section of Southern California. There is not a night that goes by that we are not privy to multiple helicopter assisted chases. We have a constant struggle against those who graffitti our building, those who find the steps to the doors leading to the main street a place not just to sleep but to deficate, leaving behind vile remnants of their daily life. Drunken sods who literally cannot stand and sleep leaning up against our doors, who literally have to be pushed with the door out of the way. There are nights when we dont venture out due to gunfire, and as there are 3 of us who work nights, we are constantly propositioned by the hookers who make a living peddaling their flesh for 20.00 a go all up and down Sepulveda Blvd, the majority of them you just pray you dont dream about while you sleep because they are everything George Romero could have ever wanted...in the time it takes for a newly lit cigarette to burn to the filter, thats all the attention you got baby!!!!...I have been approached by persons begging for money because they had just gotten off the bus from prison and needed some change to call from the phone booths next to our building. Me and my fellow technicians have been followed down back alley ways, and have had our company vehicles broken into, luckily only sacrificing company cell phones and gas cards...We have even had to have police escorts in order to work in certain areas unimpeded by gang members who just "know" that you are a cop...you may wonder why i would work in such a location. Am i a cop you say?? NO, i am a network fiberoptic engineer for Verizon Communications and my home office just happens to be smack dab in the middle of all this. What i have seen on my watch i could write volumes and volumes about, some of which i will never forget...the saying "they only come out at night" could not have more relelvance..

4th Horseman

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:clapping:Fine words my friend. Fine words indeed!

I remember my stints in Accident and Emergency on a Saturday and by God do they come out at night lol.

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BEER----> Hey - 4th. I was born in Los Angeles and that is why I am in Orange County now.

BELCH

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BEER----> Hey - 4th. I was born in Los Angeles and that is why I am in Orange County now.

BELCH

hey beer...whats up....as seen in my profile i live in Simi Valley which unfortunately is only know by many as where the Rodney King trial was...for years we had been the safest city with a population over 100,000, but have recently slipped to #5...it is a nightly challenge when i arrive at work at 10P and never knowing if, while the keycard electric gate is opening, if someone is going to hassle me or proposition me. I will post some pictures of the building later. Now, here is a funny story that most of you will laugh at. If it offends others, well, so be it...years ago, we had no gate, we could just drive into the parking lot and that was it. You know, just like the normal average business day..Well, two things began to happen...

1. The prostitutes took advantage of this and particularily at night, would bring their johns into our parking lot and do them on the hoods of various automobiles...

2. People would come into our lot and steal a car's battery. This would make you go out and buy a brand new one. Well, the next night they would come back and steal the new battery. This went on and on for years until it was decided to put up a gate that opens by scanning your id card across a sensor...

The concertina wire was first met with extreme resistance from the catholic church which is directly behind us. "How is this going to look if there is razor wire around our parking lot"..well, that lasted until they had a series of violent break-ins which occurred as the perp came thru our lot and over the seperating wall...well, we could not get the stuff up fast enough and its not anything you want to mess with as those razor sharp edges will really tear you up...

we have a bus stop just outside our two front doors (only used for UPS deliveries) which is a constant source of entertainment. Fights are a common occurrence, especially with the heavy presence of many violent gangs, in particular MS13. One of the creepiest things that happened was a number of years ago, an older gentleman sat down to wait for the bus. It was a Friday afternoon and one of my co-workers just happened to notice because he was sitting all by himself. When my friend came to work the following Monday, he noticed that the same guy he saw on Friday was still sitting on the bus bench in exactly the same spot. Well, as fate would have it, he was dead. He had died sometime Friday, and had sat the entire weekend on the bus bench with not one rider noticing as they got off or on the bus..

I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP...

There are so many more stories i could tell you. Thats one of the reasons it does not bother me much to work there. I could easily transfer to another location, but i am very comfortable with the area and with the other two people i work with. I could not see myself working anywhere else..

4th Horseman..

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Dear Gunslinger :hiya: ,

Please do not apologise or think that people would even consider you elitist. Opinions far from alienate and are always great impetus for debate. As you are, as far as I know, the only member of Law Enforcement Officer on the board I believe you have had nothing but a rapturous audience, I certainly have seen no evidence of anything else?

When Mark PM'd me to say that he asked you to this thread I though it a singularly spectacular idea and hoped that such a device would become a regular part of our discussion (4th has all the best ideas lol.) I don't think anyone would derive anything but great admiration and respect from what you wrote, primary evidence is inarguable and thoroughly welcome because of it.

Rest assure you are in the company of those who make no presumptions or judgements, have never nor would ever scoff nor have anything but unquestioned respect for the job you do. This is not the sort of place that welcomes people desirous of anything else.

As Mark notes only a fool would do so and I would defend to the death the idea that there are fools here. :death:

I have actually printed off what you wrote to guide me when writing for VS6, I can think of no better way to ensure I am respectful of the topic than using your words as a constant reminder.

I cannot thank you enough for such an illuminating conversation.

Best wishes and respect as always,

Eth!

Eth, always good to hear from you, make sure you look for spelling errors if you print anything of mine off, I would hate for you to have to be accused of corresponding with someone with the spelling abilities inherent of a sixth grader... :fool: , thanks for the vote of confidence. I am, unlike you or 4th, particuarly adept at putting into words what I feel or believe in any kind of concise or coherent or for that matter, short, narrative. If I could write a quarter as well as you or 4th, my posts would not be nearly as long winded....yes, I am painfully aware of how long winded I am.....I have been reminded about it by every supervisor I have ever worked for...lol, I must be a descendant of the Herman Melville school of writing. After I read my own posts, they are never as well versed as they seem to be when I am trowling them out at break neck speed. If either one of you ever want a career in law enforcement, you would both be promoted quickly for your ability to write wonderful, informative, thought-provoking and concise narratives. A very rare quality, I was often up long hours past my shift writing and re-writing reports several times to make sure they were short enough not to bore the prosecuting attorney to death..lol. I was accused as a rookie of liking to hear myself type on the keyboard..lol, nothing could be further from the truth, something just doesn't click like it should on the bridge between what I think and how it translates to paper. Anyway, as usual, I digress, just wanted to pass on that is great to be messaging to you and everyone else again. by the way, not sure how the weather is where you are, but as I write this, I'm looking out my dining room window on about 2-3 inches of snow and it's snowing very hard. I forget how quiet it is outside when it snows, my son calls it "furry or fluffy rain"...lol, hope you are well, take care. Gunslinger.

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LOL, good post 4th. I completely agree with you, there are some weird people in the day, even weirder on the evening shift, but if you really, really, really, want to be around when the freaks come out at night, graveyard shift is the place to be. Consistenly, graveyard shift officer and dispatchers have the craziest, whacked out, weird stories hands down that other shifts put together. By the way, reference you coming into NWA, I just spoke with my wife, I think the dates are a week after you will be in town, but we are scheduled to be in Hot Springs, AR sometime in March for vacation. My wife's sister who is from Kingman, AZ is coming into town, they have not seen each other in about 3 years, either way, I will drive back up here to Fayetteville if I have to to meet you so either way, we will have at least an evening BBQ while you are in town. The forces of evil cannot be working against us this badly....I will let you know as soon as I find out for sure, told Gina to call her sister when she gets off work to confirm dates. Gunslinger.

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