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Could someone explain to me the connection between...


Guest massofspikes

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Guest massofspikes

...Dion, "The Burly Woodsman," and the Polaroid Stalker? Who was taking pictures for whom, and to what end? (Both had walls covered in Polaroid pictures.) Was the Stalker taking pictures of potential victims for Dion? Even if that were the case, what's the use of a picture of some random person w/o some information on where that person lived, etc.?

And, my God, I couldn't last fifteen minutes listening to Dion's mother's voice and off-putting mannerisms and cloying behavior, let alone...however many years he managed to pull it off. No wonder he went apeshit.

Edit: Changed "if that WAS the case" to "if that WERE the case." Gotta' remember the subjunctive!

Edited by massofspikes
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Guest SouthernCelt

I presumed the Polaroid Stalker was using the Woodsman to further an agenda of serial murder, perhaps to try to keep Frank interested, or rather to draw him back into investigation. I think the Woodsman may have taken and collected some pictures on his own after having been mentored but I don't think the Woodsman would necessarily have developed the MO he had without mentoring.

With all that said, the Polaroid Stalker had to either be a manifestation of Legion, or more likely a selected lieutenant in the mortal world (since he could be killed) that had been sent to bedevil Frank and what better way to keep Frank involved than by giving him more crimes to solve since Frank always desired to help whenever his "gift" gave him insight that helped. I suspect Legion's involvement also because Frank was never able to "see" who the Stalker was or completely understand what he was about, which I suspect was due to Legion blocking him from that information. Also, the Group obviously had information on the Stalker and whatever powers or connection to evil forces he had. They normally would not spend a lot of effort on a run-of-the-mill (if there is such a thing) serial killer acting simply from insanity.

That's my take on it for what it's worth...and I could be dead wrong...I have been before.

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I agree with the mighty Celt on this one.

There is in an inference in 'Paper Dove' that the Polaroid man has manipulated Dion's fetishistic leanings in order to provide a red-herring for Frank to profile. It is noted that the Polaroid stalker encouraged Dion to act out his fantasies as he was in Frank's own locale.

Of course if you wish to become expansive you can refer to mythos that notes that the Millennium Group had the ability to implant and develop the modus-operandi of the Polaroid Stalker in others through neuro augmentation which I think was a way to explain why more than one individual seemed to house the 'Polaroid' the consciousness.

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Guest Jim McLean

Of course if you wish to become expansive you can refer to mythos that notes that the Millennium Group had the ability to implant and develop the modus-operandi of the Polaroid Stalker in others through neuro augmentation which I think was a way to explain why more than one individual seemed to house the 'Polaroid' the consciousness.

I'd never considered that, yes, I like that retroactive explanation. To me, if we consider it an intentional use of someone from Frank's past, in hindsight of the MG's overall power and manipulative means as we see it by the end of the show, the second Polaroid stalker appearance carries the MO of the MG and the end result drives Frank towards the MG with a greater thrust. The PM removes Frank's ability to work on his own and a need for Group resources, while at the same time moves him towards a deeper mythological question. Given how convoluted the Group is by season three, this sort of manipulation seems fairly likely, just as Emma was slowly twisted.

At the time, I don't know. I can see the Legion element to it - a servant of Legion, but I think I prefer the more tangible answer that its the MG. The third PM really does give the vibe that this is something MG orientated.

Of course if we believe it IS Legion, that could at least explain the swap in actors!

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Guest Moriarty

According to my feeling the PM was always supposed to be Lrgion. At the beginning of the second season they changed it.

Moriarty.

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It's a curious kettle of fish isn't it? Either disparate entities displaying their pathologies through the same fetishistic outlet or a Millennium-tinkered group of Polaroid-souls.

We try to hatch together a narrative from the seemingly scant pool of Polaroid-facts so to be honest I'm respectful of just every theory proffered about him. As Celt explains above we know that the Polaroid Man is known to the Group, they possess a sizeable file on him, there is the possibility that they knowingly failed to prevent his abduction of Catherine (Frank alleges as much further down the line), there is the MM Group's timely arrival at the abduction scene to which Frank enquires, 'How did you know?' of course he doesn't get an answer but it does suggest they are surveying the proceedings. There is also so much accuracy in the PM's description of the profiling process that he either shares Frank's gift or is former MM group profiler (I prefer the latter). It seems fair to assume that whatever the proceedings the Millennium Group were certainly involved in the machinations.

I'm always drawn to the surprising similarities between the rapid pseudo-augury given by Lara in her post initiation phase and the biblical-literary rant of the Polaroid Man. If we recall despite that many of us conclude that this was simply a representation of Lara's descent in madness - Peter asserts that what is happening to her is a simple reaction to the profundity of the mysteries experienced by all initiates. I have always believed therefore that the Polaroid Man is an ejected member driven insane in much the same way Lara was. Would go a long way to explain why the Group seemingly treat him with kid gloves during his abduction of Catherine.

Despite the fact that it is asserted that the Millennium Group 'engineered' at least one incarnation of the Polaroid Man there is also much to support Celt's view that he was an incarnation of 'Legion' and the biggest hint for this lies in Anamnesis an episode not usually respected for dealing with the Legion mythos at all.

"CLARE I used to be a chronicler like you. Only I believed. Then I got tested... like you. And I didn't believe.

CATHERINE Tested?

CLARE By the man who took all the pictures of you -- the one who told you the truth."

I believe the truth of this enigma to be in the fact that although Clare clearly draws an analogy between herself and Catherine, albeit in only two words of the whole conversation, she clearly 'asserts' that at some point she too has been terrorised by the Polaroid Man. I have wrestled with interpretation of this utterance since it was first pointed out, the obscurity of it and, if we are completely honest, there will never be a definitive answer but I have concluded that Clare McKenna is referring to an incident, actual, etheric, historical or otherwise, in which she WAS tested by the Polaroid Man.

Anamnesis is, in one interpretation, a study of the process of spiritual incarnation..."And thus, from age to age, she passed from body to body, into one female body after the other. Thus, she became the lost sheep." Which is either a commentary on the anamnesis of the Magdalene or more likely (considering that passage) that Clare McKenna is Miryai-Noorah - the Gnostic principle who incarnated many times and in many places both before and after her incarnation with Christ two thousand years ago. In her Christian incarnation Miryai d Magdala (Mary of Magdala, or Mary Magdalene) was born among the Jews and raised in the High Priest's home in the wealthy town of Magdala on the western shores of the Sea of Galilee. This notion of an endless cycle of souls housing a spiritual principle could go someway to explain why Clare McKenna asserts that she recalls having been tested by the Polaroid Man which in her current incarnation clearly hasn't happened. Anamnesis after all implies the act of remembering.

It seems by the end of the series 'The Group' appears to be capable of emulating this process of 'incarnation' by neuro-surgical means, "switching on" the psychological process of learning in adults, giving rise to new incarnations in their subjects.

It is truly difficult to put the whole Polaroid narrative into neat boxes or even proffer much of a coherent synopsis but I believe that be it by science or spirit the Polaroid-consciousness was shared by numerous individuals throughout time.

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Guest Jim McLean
Despite the fact that it is asserted that the Millennium Group 'engineered' at least one incarnation of the Polaroid Man there is also much to support Celt's view that he was an incarnation of 'Legion' and the biggest hint for this lies in Anamnesis an episode not usually respected for dealing with the Legion mythos at all.

"CLARE I used to be a chronicler like you. Only I believed. Then I got tested... like you. And I didn't believe.

CATHERINE Tested?

CLARE By the man who took all the pictures of you -- the one who told you the truth."

I believe the truth of this enigma to be in the fact that although Clare clearly draws an analogy between herself and Catherine, albeit in only two words of the whole conversation, she clearly 'asserts' that at some point she too has been terrorised by the Polaroid Man. I have wrestled with interpretation of this utterance since it was first pointed out, the obscurity of it and, if we are completely honest, there will never be a definitive answer but I have concluded that Clare McKenna is referring to an incident, actual, etheric, historical or otherwise, in which she WAS tested by the Polaroid Man.

Fascinating point, though I'm not as drawn to the theological element of the show as yourself, I think it would be fair to say that from this quote, the PM IS Legion in some form. If we assume Clare speaks for her past incarnation(s), we can thereby knock the MG - directly at least - out of the equation.

From a writing perspective, I'd say the direct inference of that quote is referential to something to do with Mary; Clare wasn't tested by the PM per se, but maybe the demon Legion. I would suggest if one could work out what Clare is directly referring to, one could understand how that incident relates to TPM. My guess is that if TPM was Legion, that Clare is referring to a test that also related to representation of that evil.

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Guest Laurent.
If we assume Clare speaks for her past incarnation(s), we can thereby knock the MG - directly at least - out of the equation.

Why is that? It seems easy to forget, but the Group was there during the beginning of Christianity.

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Guest Jim McLean
Why is that? It seems easy to forget, but the Group was there during the beginning of Christianity.

If it was the Group, it would be more likely something contemporary. After all, such a conclusion would come from season 3's final episode (their mind altering), and by this time revisionism had moved the current workings of the Group into a contemporary mindset based on its historical roots. If TPM was the Group, then it would be logical it was related to Frank, and I can't see the MG predicting the need to subvert Frank 2,000 years ago.

If essense of TPM task goes back to Magdalene, then its logical to assume we're looking at something bigger than the Group. Unless the evil is infiltrated deep into the Group itself - but I see little evidence to harbour than notion.

Anyway, wasn't the Group's early incarnation formed a little later than Christ?

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Guest massofspikes
There is in an inference in 'Paper Dove' that the Polaroid man has manipulated Dion's fetishistic leanings in order to provide a red-herring for Frank to profile. It is noted that the Polaroid stalker encouraged Dion to act out his fantasies as he was in Frank's own locale.

"[A] red-herring"? To distract him from what? To make him believe that Dion was the Polaroid Stalker and that, by apprehending him, he'd rid the community of the individual taking pics of Catherine and Jordan? Or to misdirect his profiling powers while the Poloroid Stalker made preperations to abduct Catherine?

Incidentally, does it speak of a weakness in the show that even these most important-to-the-canon plot points can be interpreted and "understood" in so many varying fashions--some wildly diverging from one another--that the viewer is almost tempted to throw up his/her hands sometimes and says, "Forget it!", the whole thing having long devolved into a sort of slurry of vague possibilities and inferences and maybe-so's when, as far as I'm concerned, the situation in question called for less ambiguity? (See "The Innocents/Exegesis" for the ultimate in obfuscation, intentional or otherwise.) I think MillenniuM is a fantastic show, don't get me wrong, but I'm also a bright guy (or would like to think of myself that way) and yet grow frustrated having to refer to the Abyss website after watching every third episode to discern what in the world I just witnessed exactly.

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