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Drifter Dreaming of Mercury

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A few years back i took a stab at the meaning behind the title of Saturn Dreaming of Mercury. This post was originally posted by Ravenwolf as a question on the reason on the title. Since there isnt much movement on this thread anymore i decided to dig it up due to having such a huge wave of new members around.

Well here was my post of the meaning a little over a year ago:

Dont know the meaning of the title but i will try to take a stab at it.

Since this episode is mainly about Jordan, she represents Mercury. Like Mercury she is small, sure footed and fast.

Saturn represents Lucy and her minions including Lucas. Saturn the planet is huge and cold, a big gas ball. It is also the 9th planet away from the sun. I tend to think the Sun represents GOD. Mercury is closer to GOD.

Saturn is envious of Mercury. Always thinking of Mercury. Saturn dreams of Mercury.

Conclusion:

Evil concentrates on those that expose them. Frank and Jordan are the ones that has that ability. They are Mercury

i wonder how you all interpet the episode, please join in.

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  • 10 months later...

I'd really be interested in others replying to this thread. I just finished the episode and loved it... but there are so many questions. Lucas was Lucy which makes sense given the similarity in names... was Simon Jordan's invisible friend also Lucy? I kinda get the feeling he was. That would mean that the Dad was ok, just another victim and that Lucy was making Jordan see the demon faces on the Dad?

I get the connection to Lucy's threat at the end of Antipas about getting to Frank through Jordan, it would just help if anybody had any answers.

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  • 1 month later...
Guest RodimusBen

This episode was a follow-up to "Antipas" in much the same way as "Powers, Principalities, Thrones and Dominions" was a follow-up to "Lamentation." As you say, Lucy made good on her words to Frank by going after Jordan directly, giving the younger Black her own Legionary nemesis in Lucas.

However, I do not believe that Simon was Lucas/Lucy/Legion. In my mind, Simon was the spirit of the boy who "would have been," the unborn child whom was later named Lucas. This child was replaced in the physical world by the Legion Lucas, while Simon's spirit spoke to Jordan to warn her of this danger.

Jordan's perception of Simon can be seen in one of two ways. Perhaps, because of her age, Jordan perceives her gift as an imaginary friend. This would be very similar to Danny in The Shining, who has the same gift as Mr. Hallorann but sees it as a "little boy" named Tony who lives in his mouth. On the other hand, it may be that Jordan's gift is different from Frank's and that she can indeed "see" or perceive Simon a la The Sixth Sense. I lean toward the latter explanation because I think that an important element of this episode was showing how Jordan's gift is different from her father's. Frank is unable to perceive any evil from Lucas's family until the end of the episode.

I think the episode makes clear that Luca's adoptive father was never a threat. He was a decoy for both Jordan and the audience as Legion played tricks with Jordan's ability. Just as Frank came to be seen as crazier and crazier by the people he worked with in S3, Jordan was being seen as dysfunctional rather than rational. Evil is deceptive and loves nothing more than for the people who can see it to be branded as crazy.

Finally, about the episode title: I cannot remember where I heard it, but I could have sworn I read somewhere that "Saturn Dreaming of Mercury" was an expression meaning a disciple aspiring to become like a teacher. If such is the case, then the title meaning becomes obvious, but I honestly can't remember where I heard that from.

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A few years back i took a stab at the meaning behind the title of Saturn Dreaming of Mercury.

Sometimes a cake .... is just a cake :wiggle:

you can pick your friends... you can pick your nose .... but you can NEVER pick your friend's nose !!

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT!

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here i something i found:

My Mercurial Bats date with The New Uranian still requires some processing.

But, I found this beautiful passage in Trickster Makes This World -How Disruptive Imagination Creates Culture by Lewis Hyde that I have just begun reading.

“In the last book Italo Calvino wrote, he meditates on Hermes and Mercury, Europes old quick-witted gods, (the ones with wings on their shoes), the ones whose statues still adorn the train depots), and Calvino confesses that he always looked to their speed with the jealous longing of a more methodical craftsman.

‘I am a Saturn who dreams of being a Mercury, and everything I write reflects these two impulses,’ he says. Saturn is the slow worker, the one who can build a coin collection and label all the envelopes in a neat script, the one who will rewrite a paragraph eleven times to get the rhythm right. Saturn can finish a four hundred page book. But he tends to get depressed if that is all he does; he needs regular Mercurial insight to give him something delicious to work on. “

Not sure how this relates to the Millennium episode

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  • 3 months later...
Guest Humbaba

My wife figured this out, I think. We were happy to find that someone else had found this Calvino reference--nice job, HighPlainsDrifter. The title is quite likely referring to the Calvino quote, and to relate it to the episode, we should think of the relationship between Hollis and Frank/Jordan as acted out in the final scene--Hollis is diligent and intelligent, but she does not have the insight (or visions) that Frank and Jordan are gifted with. She asks Frank to share his insight, but he refuses, which clearly upsets her. I don't believe the title necessarily relates to the plot of the rest of the episode, except insofar as Jordan's gifts are central.

Thoughts?

here i something i found:

My Mercurial Bats date with The New Uranian still requires some processing.

But, I found this beautiful passage in Trickster Makes This World -How Disruptive Imagination Creates Culture by Lewis Hyde that I have just begun reading.

"In the last book Italo Calvino wrote, he meditates on Hermes and Mercury, Europes old quick-witted gods, (the ones with wings on their shoes), the ones whose statues still adorn the train depots), and Calvino confesses that he always looked to their speed with the jealous longing of a more methodical craftsman.

'I am a Saturn who dreams of being a Mercury, and everything I write reflects these two impulses,' he says. Saturn is the slow worker, the one who can build a coin collection and label all the envelopes in a neat script, the one who will rewrite a paragraph eleven times to get the rhythm right. Saturn can finish a four hundred page book. But he tends to get depressed if that is all he does; he needs regular Mercurial insight to give him something delicious to work on. "

Not sure how this relates to the Millennium episode

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Guest Humbaba

Oh, one more thing: perhaps the child's name "Calvin" is an allusion to Calvino?

My wife figured this out, I think. We were happy to find that someone else had found this Calvino reference--nice job, HighPlainsDrifter. The title is quite likely referring to the Calvino quote, and to relate it to the episode, we should think of the relationship between Hollis and Frank/Jordan as acted out in the final scene--Hollis is diligent and intelligent, but she does not have the insight (or visions) that Frank and Jordan are gifted with. She asks Frank to share his insight, but he refuses, which clearly upsets her. I don't believe the title necessarily relates to the plot of the rest of the episode, except insofar as Jordan's gifts are central.

Thoughts?

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Crikey Joe you've struck gold here, I nearly missed this.

The passage you refer to describes so many elements of the plot perfectly it has to be where the episode took its title from. It also explains why Will built a collection of glass eyes, an element of the plot that has never truly made any sense unless you view it in light of that particular description of Saturn as a diligent and obsessive collector. Saturn dreaming of Mercury is also a perfect description of Frank and his relationship with, and need for Jordan, all suitably described in the passage also.

First time I have seen an actual quote regarding Saturn Dreaming Of Mercury other than fevered guess work, has to be something in it.

Eth

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Guest Laurent.

I think the way Humbaba puts it makes perfect sense! Pretty awesome interpretation.. probably the real idea behind the episode anyway. I think this implies that Frank is somewhere between Saturn and Mercury. He has insights, but they are clearly not as strong as Jordan's (or at least he doesn't have the impulses to act as quickly on them, he is critical of his own gift). So basically, Frank has the same gift as his daughter but he has enough experience to work slowly to back his actions on something more than his visions. On the two extremes of the spectrum you have Hollis (Saturn), with only her dedication and hard work, and Jordan (Mercury), acting impulsively on her intuitions.

And God knows that in that last scene, Hollis was dreaming to be let in on their little secret.

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  • 1 month later...
Guest frankblack13

this episode was really intense for me

everytime I see this title I think about Sailor Moon closedeyes.gif

Edited by frankblack13
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