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Why assume The Judge is a manifestation of Legion

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Guest Jim McLean
And those four traits you came up with- they are all prominent in mankind. Those are the darker sinister qualities that every person has, regardless if they are clergy, billionaire, or homeless dude on the street. Is it possible that humanity, for all its good qualities, can end up being the ultimate evil?

Well again it boils down your initial point: is Evil merely a perspective than an absolute? I would agree with that statement, and MM largely does also, with it being a story about a profiler capturing 'evil' people by understanding the roots in their background that create such actions.

But I suppose what one could say MM also postulates is a 3rd part evil that doesn't work naturally along side "human" evil, but looks to nurture and control it. I guess the difference with the Legion evil is that it doesn't stem from any confused or deranged desire as human evil tends to, it does for the sake of doing.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Jim McLean

Just watched Powers, Principalities Thrones and Dominions again. Dear lord, the Judge reference is blatant. Whatever the Judge was, narratively, he is directly referred to as Pepper.

PEPPER: I have a very successful law firm. I'm looking to expand. I need an investigator - someone with your abilities.

FRANK: You remind me of someone. Have we met before?

PEPPER: I seem to be blessed with a familiar face.

FRANK: Oh.

The inference is presumably the confidence and direct interest in Frank reminds Frank of the Judge. At this point its an arguable inference - until later:

PEPPER: As I've said to you before, you needn't make up your mind now. My offer remains open for as long as is necessary.

FRANK: You've come to me before.

PEPPER: So you've said.

The narrative - and Frank - is referencing this from 'The Judge':

JUDGE: Well, it's time to go. And remember, the offer's open. And if I'm hard to reach, well, don't make the conventional assumptions.

There is no doubt that The Judge is the initial contact to a very definitive Legion arc. I would say that if we take the notion of Pepper "coming back" as Evil, could be the Judge was the same, filled with the same vestige of the same Evil. The same beast. Legion. While the fans dubbed this the Legion arc, given The Judge's self reference, and the series extension of this character, there is no doubt Legion is apt. And with Lucy Butler played as an extension too (in the Mall), the idea of the singular Evil represented by various figures through the Millennium universe, shows a common denominator in ideology and fixation in Frank.

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Great stuff,

Related, but somewhat abstract, someone, I believe The Old Man, championed a return to the 'shared viewing experience' and I wondered if people would be interested in deconstructing the 'Legion Arc' by viewing the thirteen episodes that testify to it? It would be awesome for us all to be on the same page and hit the forums afresh from a viewing and more importantly I can just envisage the quality of critique that would result from it. For anyone curious the thirteen episodes would comprise of:

Gehenna

The Judge

Lamentation

Powers, Principalities, Thrones and Dominions

Sacrament

Monster

The Curse of Frank Black

Siren

The Pest House

A Room with No View

Antipas

Saturn Dreaming of Mercury

Seven and One

Yup there are a few debatable entries there and some potential inclusions overlooked but it's about time there was a concerted effort to autopsy the Legion mythos and place it under some scrutiny. Anyone in for a 'Science Fiction Double Feature' type event?

Yours,

Eth

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Guest Jim McLean
A reason to go back and dig through the dvds again. I will consider this like homework. And it will push me to buy the season 3 dvds.

I'm making my way through the series as a whole, so I'll be keeping an eye on the Legion arc as it progresses.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I definitely agree that the Judge is Legion.

Maybe not the same representation as Lucy, but that's the point about Legion. It is Many.

From the Gospel of Mark 5:9 "My name is Legion, for we are many."

I think we can assume there is more than one agent of Legion on the show, but they all act with the same will.

The Evil of Lucy may not be the same Evil that fills Danielle (Monster,) or drives Edward (Pest House.) Compared to Lucy/Judge, they could just be tools of evil without being fully aware of it.

The Judge might have just been a crazy man thinking he was doing good, but I think he was more aware than that, more Legion than most, if you will.

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  • 1 month later...
Guest RodimusBen

I definitely feel that Legion is another element of Millennium that would have come into better focus if the show had gone on for another season or two. As it stands, it seems to me that Legion is a catch-all for most of the evil supernatural elements of the show.

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Guest byron lomax
Great stuff,

Related, but somewhat abstract, someone, I believe The Old Man, championed a return to the 'shared viewing experience' and I wondered if people would be interested in deconstructing the 'Legion Arc' by viewing the thirteen episodes that testify to it? It would be awesome for us all to be on the same page and hit the forums afresh from a viewing and more importantly I can just envisage the quality of critique that would result from it. For anyone curious the thirteen episodes would comprise of:

Gehenna

The Judge

Lamentation

Powers, Principalities, Thrones and Dominions

Sacrament

Monster

The Curse of Frank Black

Siren

The Pest House

A Room with No View

Antipas

Saturn Dreaming of Mercury

Seven and One

Yup there are a few debatable entries there and some potential inclusions overlooked but it's about time there was a concerted effort to autopsy the Legion mythos and place it under some scrutiny. Anyone in for a 'Science Fiction Double Feature' type event?

Yours,

Eth

I am planning to watch all of the episodes very soon in that order, with no non-legion episodes in between. I'm curious about "Sacrament" - I didn't pick up on any Legion element the first time I watched it, so I'll pay close attention to that one this time round.

If there's anything here I'd be sceptical about, it's "The Pest House" - to me the "transformations" in the episode felt more symbolic, like Donnie Pfaster in the X-Files episode "Irresistable".

Edited by byron lomax
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Hi Byron,

I'm skeptical about a significant number of episodes that comprise the 'Legion Mythos' and it is precisely this lack of consensus amongst fans that resulted in such a list of episodes being generated. Compare any two member's 'Legion' lists and there will be examples of consensus but more than likely a significant number of divergences. Ask a greater number of fans for their opinions and you end up with a list akin to the above. I think we fully accept that the Legion mythos was confined to only a limited number of episodes, a few in the first season and one in the third, the rest are the results of conjecture and supposition. Once you've trawled through the list above please let us know which tick the boxes for you and which don't.

Best wishes,

Eth

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Guest byron lomax

Thanks for that eth, one of the things I actually like about the Legion arc is it's ambiguity. There's no surprise at the lack of consensus among fans, as, among other things, Legion is only referred to directly on one occasion, there's no "previously on Millennium" segment to help clarify the connecting threads in the storyline, etc. It's up to fans to make those connections. There's no doubt that there IS a running storyline, though - I guess the question the viewer must ask themselves is "how do we identify a Legion episode?"; "what must the episode have in it in order to qualify as a Legion episode?" I'll get back to you with my conclusions!

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