Mabius equals Gehenna Cult Leader

[Guest RodimusBen]

I'm guessing this has probably been discussed before. They are both played by the same actor, and both considered part of "Legion." So why are they treated as two different characters?

[Guest RodimusBen]

You know, I just realized this is a duplicate of another topic. Moderators please feel free to close.

[ethsnafu]

Hi Rodimus,

I won't close the topic as it's a great opportunity for new members, and old, to debate 'Millennium' regardless of how, or when, it was done before. As Millennium has been absent from our screens for a decade and TIWWA has been around for much of that time you can bet your bottom dollar many topics have been discussed on multiple occasions. I guess the only time we would moderate such a thing is if discussions are occurring simultaneously, as occurred recently with the 'Mark Snow CD' threads.You are welcome to start as many new topics as you would like, in fact, we encourage you to do so :)

Back to the topic, it seems no brainer to draw the conclusion you allude to. Let's face it, I have contributed to more fanciful discussions over the years, and it certainly seems indicative of the assumption that many fans hold: that Legion infiltrated the Millennium Group and brought about the civil war seen in Owls and Roosters. I guess the reason people 'err' on this issue is due to that fact that 1013 productions had a habit of using actors in varying roles with no intended link between the characters they portrayed. When I spoke to Trevor White recently we discussed the fact that he had portrayed two different characters in two different seasons of Millennium. If someone were to posit a theory that the Gehenna Cult Leader and Mabius were one and the same I could certainly see evidence to back this up. Lucy Butler's story shows us that the Legion entity is capable of adopting the image of the people it influences/possesses, even if we conclude the two are distinct entities there is narrative support, at least, for the conclusion that Legion could look like 'any' of the characters in the Millennium canon.

What's your take on this?

Best wishes,

Eth

[Guest RodimusBen]

Hmm, I guess if I had to come up with a theory I would say that maybe an agent of Legion adopted the Gehenna Cult Leader's image to be the default form of Mabius. I mean, all of Legion's appearances-- Pepper, Lucas, etc., are illusions. In my opinion, we have only truly seen Legion in the flashes of the demon image that Frank has had. And the Gehenna cult leader is certainly connected, since those same images appeared in Frank's flashes in 1x02.

No concrete evidence to base any of that on, but that would be my postulation.

[Orodromeus]

There's no proof either way. My feeling is that they're unrelated. The Gehenna leader's "shell" was not the same "shell" that Legion used for Mabius. The similarity of appearance comes from casting coincidence (similar to theories that the Terry O'Quinn character in XF: Fight the Future was the same as in a season 9 episode). But I won't defend that to death...

Gehenna:

The suspected leader is a former chemical engineer named Ricardo Clement. He is being held under the suspicion of murder of at least one cult member. Authorities confiscated a large cache of biological and other weapons purchased on the global black market.

For Mabius, I had imagined somebody coming from Special Forces or some military/intelligence group, in keeping with season 3's depiction of the MM Group's close ties with the military, not some freelance. Though the two can be related.

---

Anyway, what I wanted to add to this was just that I saw the XF season 2 opener "Little Green Men" again and only now after all these years did I realize that the actor who played Mabius is in it! He's an FBI agent sent by the CSM to do surveillance in Mulder's apartment! Legion again?

[Guest Jim McLean]

Interesting points indeed! As I've said before, we know that this instance wasn't intentional - it was just recasting of a good actor. I think it's important to separate the fact we know that actors are simply recast from the fun in chatting about what ideas would enhance the internal energy of the show's mythology.

Personally, I like the idea of the two being linked. Retrospectively, if we ignore "production reality" it makes more sense they are linked than they aren't. We know the faces of Legion are many, we know that the faces of Legion are not not static but malleable, we know that death doesn't stop Legion (The Judge), we know that the cult leader was connected to Legion through Frank's imagery and we know Mabius is too. Ergo, we can find some enhancement in the good fortune that they are one and the same.

As for the recasts in X-Files and Millennium, well if I was to be anal I like to justify them in the "internal reality" as being a weird part of the universe; that some people do look the same but for whatever reason don't register so. There are people who lose the ability to recognize familiar faces, you could extend that to a situation where certain faces could be identical but rarely spotted to be. Hey, this is the universe of the X-Files. If the Bermuda Triangle can cause time travel, who's to say? Could even be a government conspiracy. Or a Group conspiracy. In the end I know its production recasts, and I'm cool with that - no harm in indulging in some fan-justifications though is there! ;)

[SadEyes]

Hmm, interesting. But the question, if Clement/Mabius are a part of Legion, would be then: Why doesn´t Peter recognize him? And Frank doesn´t seem to either. Peter talked to him in the interrogation room and because of Frank he should know, that there are evil forces behind this man, so why would he be fine with Mabius becoming a member of the group? On the other hand, Frank never told Peter precisely what he saw. So maybe it is just a "working together with the bad man to save the world"-thing for the greater purpose... ...Trivia-Fun!

[Guest RodimusBen]

Well, part of the answer to THAT question depends on what you believe happened to the Millennium Group in Season 3. I'm of the opinion that the MG saved Peter's family from the outbreak in exchange for his cooperation, and that the MG had been taken over by Legion from the inside to prevent the once-noble group's endeavors to avoid the apocalypse. Were this the case, Peter would be working with Mabius whether he liked it or not.

[SadEyes]

Good point, but is the group in season 3 really forcing the end instead of preventing it? Well, maybe a part of the group, like the four men seen in the X-Files-Episode "Millennium", but the whole group? I´ve always thought, that, as stated in the final episode of season 2, the group is still holding up law and order in the world, but of course their law and order. It´s not important, how many people have to die, as long as it serves the greater purpose. At least that´s what I unterstood about the methods of the group.

[Guest Jim McLean]

Good point, but is the group in season 3 really forcing the end instead of preventing it? Well, maybe a part of the group, like the four men seen in the X-Files-Episode "Millennium", but the whole group? I´ve always thought, that, as stated in the final episode of season 2, the group is still holding up law and order in the world, but of course their law and order. It´s not important, how many people have to die, as long as it serves the greater purpose. At least that´s what I unterstood about the methods of the group.

Evil is insidious in nature. I like The Old Man, have always liked the idea that Mabius is slowly corrupting the Group. Maybe not even directly, but association. For me, the Group has very much changed direction from season 2. I always felt that the changes, perhaps lead after Owls and Roosters brought the Group as much to a precipice as the Group almost brought the world, and such strong conviction may have opened the fractures in the Group leaving it exposed. One could mythologically argue it had committed such a sin it was an open wound, easily penetrated by the infection of evil. One could perhaps argue Mabius entered earlier, shortly after Roosters in the new regime and his influence brought the rather extreme actions of The Time Is Now.

Are there holes in this? Sure, because I don't think his Legion links were carefully masterminded. Like everything in Millennium, answers tend to work on motifs or thematic answers rather than explicit nuances. I like the idea that perhaps Peter knew but had no way to stop it, at best all he could do was protect Frank from the corruption of the Group, or maybe that evil can wear the same face, but not necessarily carry the same identity - which is something more mystic, but befitting total evil; it could look like your grandfather but you wouldn't recognize it through how it looks, but only through its actions.

Or perhaps in the 1013 universe, so many people look so similar, people just get used to it. After all, if they locked up everyone with a doppelganger as being evil, Peter Watts might find himself locked up on a couple of offenses? :)