New Viewer with some Questions

[Guest spacemarine17]

Hey!

This is my first time running through MM and I am only up to Antipas so please do not leak anything past that episode. I am a huge fan of the Legion mytharc and was wondering a few things. But please only answer the questions that I should/could know by this episode. I really like to go in fresh on these types of things. Although I understand if the audience is left to interpret (that's my fav)

In Beware of Dog there were 5 or so dogs "haunting" that small town. Now in Antipas Lucy became 2 dogs (German shepherds- same as in BOD) and killed the gardener and such.

Now was it Lucy Beware of Dog or another member of Legion?

In Powers, Principalities etc. At the end Frank sees Allister morph into Lucy and another (I forget right now) So my question is do the members of Legion just share faces? Or do they have a true face then just happen to use the same ones?

Thank you. And I hope to tear through the remaining episodes ASAP.

-adam.

[ethsnafu]

Hi there Spacemarine,

As you so rightly note, a lot of the Legion mythos is open to interpretation so it is hard for people to offer definitives to questions such as these so I can only share my own opinion. I didn't perceive any of the Legion mythos in play during Beware of the Dog, I accepted the on screen explanation as perfectly acceptable, that being, that the dogs, due to heightened canine sensitivity were responding to the imbalance between good and evil brought about my pre-Millennial hysteria. In Antipas, and in A Room with no View, Lucy is indeed shown with a canine motif but my own view of this was it was simply playing into the archetypal dark-goddess figures such as Lillith and Hecate who were often show with dogs, mazes, snakes and so on as symbolic representations of their nature. Lucy shared many attributes with this historical archetypes as do pretty much all dark-feminine antagonists in popular culture.

As for PPTD, I can accept that Legion has no true form and is capable of adapting whatever visage it so chooses, after all, we are shown in A Room with No View, that Lucy Butler is using the form of Annie Martin in her current incarnation. As Frank notes in Antipas, she will always be with us, it stands to reason that she must have had a form prior to her meeting with Annie in the 1800's I believe. I could say more but will honour your spoiler request and wait until you have seen what comes next ;)

Eth

[Guest spacemarine17]

Thanks for replying!

Excellent so it is up to interpretation. I love that so much!!

You know I totally forgot about Annie Martin. (Again first time viewing) But I'm usually on to stuff like that hmmm... interesting. I was sort of questioning Lucy being a succubus but I guess Chris Carter just wanted to put a bunch of monsters together. Which is cool ha.

Also I'm now backtracking through "important" episodes for my friend to watch also. I say "important" because she doesn't like serial killer stuff (I also do not) but for this awesome mytharc I deal with it then show her the episodes that really deal with the main plots of the show. Now my question to anyone/everyone is would you consider the Legion story to be the true plot of Millennium?

When she first saw the scene of Lucy/Long Haired Man/Demon in Lamentation she said she liked that episode, so I replied with "Great b/c that's the main story to the show. Like how aliens were the main focus for X-Files." Then a handful of episodes later there was no talk of Lucy so my friend said "Legion can't be the main plot because they never speak of it."

So what's your take? Legion? Innocents? the Millennium Group? Besides Good Vs Evil or Man vs Himself etc.

Also thank you ethsnafu for letting me know that there will be more Legion stuff. I see MM fans cry when they discuss the ending of the show and the X-Files episode to follow it up so I was worried this story arc ended with Lucy threatening Jordan.

Psyched to see the rest!

-a.

[Earthnut]

Not sure if I have welcomed you to the group yet. Trust me, the more of Millennium you see, the more you will want. The show and the group members on this site are so addicting. Look forward to chatting with you.

[ethsnafu]

Hi Spacemarine,

I know I'm repeating myself here but as you're new I'll get away with it. I wish I could recall where I read this but I know I definitely did, I have begged on occasion for some help in finding the source but never turned anything up. Anyway, I recall Chris Carter speaking about the Legion mythos and how such a thing wasn't intended the way fans interpreted it. Of course there was an overall arc that dealt with evil and the way this evil targeted Frank but the arc was never intended to depict a legion of demons/entities working in unison, the characters that tempted Frank were originally conceived of as unrelated characters rather than agents of Legion. The second season, and debate this amongst yourselves, didn't continue in the same vein as the first but by this time fans were sure that a Legion arc did exist and characters like Tamara and Danielle were perceived to be agents of Legion despite that fact that such an arc was even less intended in the second season than the first. There is a resolution to this tale but I will leave that for when you have finished the series as I don't want to spoil the fun.

By the way, I would love to hear your ideas regarding Beware of the Dog and Legion, I know I said I don't perceive a Legion tale in the episode but it doesn't mean I don't adore hearing about such things from people who do.

Best wishes,

Eth

[Guest Jim McLean]

Anyway, I recall Chris Carter speaking about the Legion mythos and how such a thing wasn't intended the way fans interpreted it. Of course there was an overall arc that dealt with evil and the way this evil targeted Frank but the arc was never intended to depict a legion of demons/entities working in unison, the characters that tempted Frank were originally conceived of as unrelated characters rather than agents of Legion.

I'd love to see that source, though I don't doubt the possibility of it. Chris said the gift was just profiling in season one, when its clear by Sacrament its not, and almost certain by Walkabout that even Frank sees it as something else. So I'm never quite sure whether what Chris refers to is his intent or what was produced! When one looks at season one, you can see definitive ties between the "Evil" episodes, or working together either in imagery or direct reference. The Judge refers to him as Legion, and says his offer to work with him will remain open, which it does in PPTD. The imagery of the devil on the stairs is given a portent in Sacrament which again is referenced in PPTD. Lucy appears in PPTD and again events are tied closely in. I get the impression someone on Chris' team felt they were linked; that while Legion wasn't a coined term, Evil was as the Judge suggested, the same beast with very different faces - all of which are after Frank.

As for season two, I don't doubt that's a different direction by a team moving the themes of season one onwards - whether or not they were conscious of what I've suggested or simply liked the vague unnatural evil aspects is hard to say. Again, I don't think its co-incidence that the same dogs appear in BotD and the Butlers stories. Of course dogs have the Omen iconography which would naturally link them, but I must say I am suspicious as to the practical consistency throughout the show - though so far as an arc of Evil, I can't believe that the Evil in season one are all separate. There are just far too many narrative, script and visual links that tie it into a story as Evil looks to pressure Frank to re-evaluate the Judge's offer.

I really should go through the "Legion Arc of season one" (Gehenna, The Judge, Sacrement, Lamentation, PPTD) - all of which are all so definitively bound one can't help wondering whether a script editor helped tie a show in ways Carter hadn't intended.

[hippyroo]

Our brains often make connections where there should not be any. This is how optical illusions work; we see what we think we ought to see. It easy to apply this to MLLM. Certainly some of the mythos was worked out by the leaders at 1013, but some of it just kind of happens because the topic has limited images and we put them together our own ways.

[Guest Jim McLean]

It's an interesting topic, and I do disagree with your Hippy. I think I'll leave my reasons until the podcast we're recording this weekend. I think it would be better served there! :)

[hippyroo]

You disagree that our brains fill in the blanks to make sense of things, or just that it does not apply to MLLM? I don't watch podcasts, so I shan't see what you mean throught that.

[Guest Jim McLean]

You disagree that our brains fill in the blanks to make sense of things, or just that it does not apply to MLLM? I don't watch podcasts, so I shan't see what you mean throught that.

I disagree that in this specific context that I'm filling blanks to make sense of things. I think in terms of - solely - season one, there is a definitive Legion arc, as I believe there is an inference that Frank's gift isn't simply intuitive - a point Carter disputes on the DVD.

But yes, I do agree that much in TV is built on our own interpretations that aren't necessarily indicative of the writer's intent. A good example would be notions that the outcome of Owls/Roosters were conducive to the final events in season two, as we see the Group move under a new initiative, or maybe that Mabius is the same "Legion" from season one. Smokes and mirrors to create the possibility for interpretation is there in another aspects of MLM, I would say Darwin's Eye is full of them.

But I have no doubt there is a narrative consistency to Legion in season one; that it is an intended arc; that the script and story has intentional devices to create a thread that works throw a series of episodes about the same evil than fans dub (accurately) "Legion".

I'll post my notes on here after the podcast. It's just I'd like to use it as material for the podcast rather than simply a debate here.