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What the cameras did not show...


Sigil

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https://news.yahoo.co...w%20external%22

The quick version is that 4 of the cameras that recorded events near the Murrah Federal Building appear to be edited. Officially we are told that tape was being changed or the like. It is mathamatically possible of course, that a day shift starting at 9am made the first order of business to change tapes. It smells funny to me though but I am sure I cannot think of what could be gained by a governmental coverup of the moments before the blast.

What is your opinion?

Side note: I had the occasion to tour the museum and memorial that has been erected on the site of this awful event, and I have to say it is an amazing tribute to the human spirit. It is hard to get through there dry eyed, not only because of the level of human suffering, but more because of the generousity and valiance of the rescue workings and the people that supported them. The 2 that touched me the most... They had a tent set up to serve the rescue workers hot meals, tend to injuries (not victims but wounds from digging through the rubble), sort donations and etc. Everyone there in a support role apparently kept asking if there was anything else needed. In a an off hand way to let them know that they had gone above and beyond, one of the rescuers said that they had everything but a barbershop set up for them. When he returned, a barbers chair and a barber were waiting for him to make sure he was taken care of.

They used the local media to ask for supplies. Gloves, or water, or ropes... whatever was needed the community brought for them. On one of these calls they asked for boots, new or used, because the debris was tearing up the workers boots so quickly. A man arrived in a pickup truck shortly there after, and handed them a pair of boot. As the support team watched him get back into his truck, they noticed that he had only socks on. He had literally given the shoes off his feet.

Edited by Sigil
by Libby: to try to delete unwanted html code
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We live in a world where too many people won't go far enough... won't do what they know is right... what they believe. I don't know how or why it got this way but the world has become so complicated, to involve yourself in someone else's problems is to invite them needlessly on yourself. ~ Frank Black

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Sigil, thank you for this post.

As a resident of Oklahoma City I remember that heart-wrenching day very well and am so very proud of the people's response to help that day, and since then. Not one business was looted. There was literally no crime that day at all, none. Makes me shiver. I saw the building that day and honestly don't know what to say except that it was a horrible, and again "heart-wrenching" sight. Yes, the memorial is a beautiful thing to see and we Oklahomans are very proud of it.

The fire department had t-shirts made after 911. On the front it had a small American Flag in the shape of a heart over the left breast with the words, "One Heart," above it slightly arched. On the left side of the heart is "New York City September 11, 2001," and on the right side, "Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995." On the back, in the middle, is 7 chain links with, "Oklahoma Fire/Rescue April 19, 1995," on the left, and on the right, "New York Fire/Rescue September 11, 2001." Underneath is "WE ARE ONE!" I wear mine proudly on both dates every year.

There has been a lot of controversy over the Murrah Building bombing and I do not doubt for a minute that the video has been edited, naturally for "security reasons," if the authorities were to be questioned, if they haven't already. One of the things I remember the most was a woman that had been interviewed right after the bombing, and the interview was never re-played nor was she interviewed again. It had to do with the nursery and the office of the federal agent that headed the Waco incident whos office was in the Murrah building. His office had a skeleton crew that day, only a couple people were there, as though they had been warned, yet the nursery was full. No one would discuss this again, and obviously the woman had been hushed.

In 1984, 11 years before the Murrah bombing, a young man, and friend of the family, painted a picture that confused us and blew us away at the same time. We became more blown away with it after 911, and once I figure out how to get this picture online and post it here, I will attempt to explain it's symbolism as I have tried in depth to research it. It clearly shows the bombing in Oklahoma, and NY, 11 years before OKC and 17 years before NYC. I won't go into any more details now. The sad part is the original painting is missing or destroyed and I may very well have the only picture left taken of it. I tried to go to the press with it, and contacted many groups here in town, but no one wanted any part of it. It really scared a lot of people that saw it. I have tucked it away and now will, "reopen the case," since I have the Millennium Group interested. Yee ha.

DarleneSignaturePic1.jpg

"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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Hi Guys,

Many thanks for taking the time to share this Sigil and for adding your own thoughts Darlene. I have recently finished watching a series devoted to conspiracy theories shown on Sky One. Amongst those covered were The Oklahoma City Bombing, The Siege on Waco, The Lockerbie Disaster and 7/11. Whilst all appeared to have fairly compelling evidence that at least warranted a second look all of them were dismissed outright by the powers that be and made to appear to the province of online nerds with too much time on their hands and a fanciful imagination. One of the startling similarities between all these cases were stories that suggested that 'those in the know' were aware in advance of the events that transpired. In the case of Pan Am Flight 103 it is frequently asserted that an FBI agent ran on to the runway and all but dragged his own daughter off the plane prior to launch. However, I digress...

Darlene you have really caught my attention with the painting you mention and I do hope you can find it. I do love a little speculative discussion about subjects like this and to think we could have a home-grown conspiracy theory ripe for dissecting is pretty tantalising. I do hope you will tell us more when you have chance.

Best wishes,

Eth

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I will add my voice as one who would really like to see that photo, or the print itself.

I had no idea that there was so much unanswered about that attack. Wikipedia led me here... Scary if even some of it is true.

https://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/ok.html

We live in a world where too many people won't go far enough... won't do what they know is right... what they believe. I don't know how or why it got this way but the world has become so complicated, to involve yourself in someone else's problems is to invite them needlessly on yourself. ~ Frank Black

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I'm curious, what would have been the Government motivation for a cover up regarding the OK city bombing? I understand that the political climate in our country was much different on 9-11 than it was in 1995. It is my sincere belief that the only conspirators were cohorts of McVeigh who were never rounded up, unfortunately. McVeigh had the motive, the expertise, and the commitment to set up and execute the OK city bombing. If I remember correctly, he was at the top of his class in just about everything in basic training and A.I.T. during his time in the military. Thoughts?

"Have I run too far to get home?"

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I have the picture on a CD and now need to figure out how to post it here, hopefully without having to leave it somewhere else. Is there any way to post it from the CD? Off to the help section.

DarleneSignaturePic1.jpg

"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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Darlene,

You should be able to drag and drop it to whatever destination you choose. Pop the cd in your disk drive, explore its contents and once you find the file drag and drop it to your desktop or wherever takes your fancy. I do hope you find a way as I am genuinely intrigued by what you had to say. It's the 'Sherlock Holmes' in me I guess.

I do agree with Gunslinger. Most conspiracy theories do, on the face of it, seem plausible if you ignore one or two plot holes but they usually begin to beggar belief when they wander into the murky territory of motive. In the case of the Oklahoma City Bombing, proponents of the conspiracy theories assert that bombing was done by the government to frame the militia movement or enact antiterrorism legislation while using McVeigh as a scapegoat. I guess whether that sounds plausible is entirely up to the individual.

As I have said before, one of the few conspiracy theories that I do believe is that Diana: Princess of Wales was killed in a plot orchestrated by the British elite and considering the polls that come out every now and again a vast portion, 90% at one point, of my fellow countrymen feel the same and the reason it resonates with me is not only the evidence but the motive sounds solid to boot. Who knows.

Looking forward to seeing the picture if you can work it our Darlene,

Eth

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Eth, I have the picture now in my docs in my Millennium Folder, but I don't know how to post it here without posting it at another site first for the Image URL. I don't want this picture available anywhere but here if that's possible. Eth, send me a PM if you have details on how I can accomplish this.

There is an organization here that actually is still investigating the bombing. In simple terms, no one usually acts alone with something this big, and controversial as it has been. It could have been any federal building, but this building just happened to have the offices of the FBI agent in charge of the Waco incident, and with a skeleton crew. That made a lot of people question. I believe McVeigh was ready and willing to be sacrificed for the cause he believed in. There are always scapegoats, especially in politics. For all we know the bombing at the Murrah Building was a cover-up for something bigger going on, or a test. The picture tells me that it is definitely part of something big.

Most people in America feel the same way about Diana. It was not simply an accident. I have no doubts that her death was planned, and wouldn't the "British Elite" have a lot to gain with her gone? She created a big stir all over the world, especially when it came to her causes. I am proud to say that I have on my wall a commemorative plate with Diana's picture on it, given to me my my dear friend in Poole Dorset.

DarleneSignaturePic1.jpg

"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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  • 6 months later...
Guest Seraphim

Hopefully, I will be able to resurrect, even if temporarily, this topic.

Earthnut: I would be very interested in seeing this image you speak of. I find such possibilities of foreknowledge rather fascinating. I actually had a dream in the late 90's in which I was in an extremely tall building (I would imagine being 70 to 100 floors up). I was looking out the window over a skyline when I heard a sound. I looked away from the lower buildings and up to see a large commercial airliner heading straight for the part of the building in which I stood. The dream then shifted to me in the car with my mother. On the radio were descriptions of a horrible incident in which a plane has just impacted a large building.

ethsnafu: While I agree there exist many conspiracy theories that are outlandish (Aliens are recruiting homosexuals to help them destroy humanity in exchange for ways to breed without use of technology or surrogates, or that Star Trek is mind control propaganda of the Catholic Church); however, I find that some of the reasons people reject some conspiracies or possibilities is due to taking certain supposed truths for granted; along with a little double-think. For example... The argument against aliens being able to visit Earth due to extreme distance is based on an ignorance to the possibility of curved space-time that would allow one to move take advantage of those curves. It also ignores the great deal of evidence for a universe that is immaterial. Non-locality in various sub-atomic particles indicates that distance is inconsequential in some cases. Does this prove aliens have come to Earth? Of course not, but it does smash aside the argument that they could not.

When it comes to conspiracies involving governments once must look beyond the outer layer to determine possibility and likelihood. At least in some countries, the visible government such as the US Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches are really only a small part of the government. If one knows enough about certain sections of the US government, and illicit activities have been proven and or admitted to, it is no hard to believe that someone in a position of power could have had a hand in either OK City or 9/11. We really are not privy to the actions of many areas of Uncle Sam's body. This is especially true in regards to parts of the military and intelligence communities. There are things that the President and Congress are not allowed to know. Requests for information from these departments by both types of elected officials have been denied unless they have pre-existing ties. This is more true with the intelligence community than the military. Another sad reality is that in the society that many of us live, nothing is ever satiated. The US is not satisfied with the power it wields. It has to be the best and the strongest no matter what it takes. This why there is still bio-warfare research being conducted, why the government spends more but does less for the populace, and why it has done horrible things to foreigners and US citizens alike. There are many feasible reasons, there are enough holes in the official stories, and there is the capability on the part of various individuals and organizations. One should never underestimate the power of human cruelty or greed. If the Nazi's could do what they did in the open, certainly other governments could do much in hiding.

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Hi Seraphim,

Thank you for reinvigorating this topic. Darlene did share the picture as I recall and I'm not sure why it isn't in this thread but I let Darlene attend to that query.

I am completely tolerant of the idea of conspiracy theories and, to some degree, there are some that I actually subscribe to but what alarms me is the degree to which conspiracy theorists will subscribe to every theory posited no matter how outlandish. Whilst conspiracy theorists will argue that individuals need to expend their cognition a little and look beyond the accepted truths we are indoctrinated to accept without challenge, I would also argue that some conspiracy theorists need to be more discerning about those beliefs they seek to champion. Arguing that 9/11 is a government conspiracy is an argument not aided if those proclaiming such things also found to be subscribers to the flat earth theory e.g. Sometimes a cookie is just a cookie and not a covert means of bio-terrorism by disseminating an immunodestructive agent to the carbohydrate loving masses. OK I made the latter up but I have heard far more colourful theories espoused believe me.

My other issue, as I noted, is that it is not enough to say "...they government can...", I think we all accept that Governments are capable of a great many things but that doesn't necessarily mean they did and do. The means to do something is not a guilty verdict, there has to be the evidence that something has taken place. Many conspiracy theories hinge solely on the notion that world governments have the means and capabilities of orchestrating atrocities but bereft of actual proof of these atrocities they are simply what the label on the jar states they are, conspiracy theories not conspiracy fact.

I have been an ardent following of conspiracy theories and I have to say that some are incredibly compelling, some I actually believe are probably true, but a vast number of them seem to well constructed exercises in creative fiction.

I did, however, watch 9/11 Loose Change and it was a chilling and sobering experience I can tell you. I was surprised, as an Englishman, how close the bone it cut.

Less is more when it comes to conspiracy theories in my book but thank heaven for them. The make the world a very colourful place to live.

Eth

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