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Snapper

By The Numbers: 2

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A bit of an underwhelming selection. Anyway, I'll post my comments later.

Votey!

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Gehenna was very good, and nearly matched up with the pilot - although the antagonist wasn't really well-defined, which hurts the ep a bit. (As does the perennially unlucky Mike deciding that walking into an industrial microwave is a prudent thing to do.) Still, it has style and kept me on edge throughout.

I had only caught the last five or ten minutes of Beware of the Dog when it was originally broadcast. Finally watching it now really calls into question my previous fanaticism about S2. It's really a clumsy way to introduce the mythology schtick, and it requires a suspension of disbelief in regards to the supernatural that is unwarranted (unlike, say, Lamentation). Maybe there's something good in the script and it just wasn't directed (or in some cases, acted) well... but right now I doubt it.

I have no such doubts about Exegesis. That's just plain awful from start to finish. Missile silos? Remote viewing? Gunfights with shadowy quasi-government agents? If I wanted to watch a rejected X-Files script, I'd watch Sense-Antisense; at least that one had decent acting.

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"Beware of the Dog" did it for me! "Gehenna" was a very close 2nd, though!

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Beware of the Dog. It and Gehenna are equally dry, but the Millennium Group stuff tips the scale. Exegesis wins the first price in bad idea awards by introducing Evil!Watts.

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Like I said before, these are not episodes i'd use to try and convert someone. Geheena though, gave us the first images of Legion, and is thus an iconic part of the Millennium world.

Beware of the Dog is mildly entertaining, and it is moderately relevant to the mytharc.

Exegesis is just a godawful mess, but at least not as bad as The Innocents. Johannesen's lowest point.

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Guest se7en
Beware of the Dog. It and Gehenna are equally dry, but the Millennium Group stuff tips the scale. Exegesis wins the first price in bad idea awards by introducing Evil!Watts.

.....sorry but i simply cannot help myself: Watts was absolutely "not" evil in S3. ...being scrutinized by his every move? yep. ...kept in line by having Mabius shadowing him? yep. ...desperate and scared shitless out of his mind for himself and his wife and family . . . and Frank and Jordon? yep. ...but EVIL? not even close.

Watts knew he was trapped in with bunch of whack-jobs as early the excruciating S2 finale. ...there are a few telling lines right in "The Innocents" that, combined with how they are delivered by O'Quinn, beautifully points out exactly the kind of position he is in. It's right in the "so-called" confrontation scene between Frank and Watts when he shows up at her school.

...all i'll say is that if one watches that scene very carefully you will see something pretty amazing-(one of but 2 or 3 good things about the ep)- from O'Quinn in his performance here; it's subtle but very powerfull. The way in which he referrs to the group, in equall parts depseration and fear is very telling. ....those who enjoy, or love, S3-(and it's really nice to see more and more "coming out of the closet"-lol!)- and have either the tapes or were customers during the MM-DVD-PROJECT will likely know exactly what i am talking about.

....and while i pretty much agree that this is Chip's weakest script you have to keep in mind that after the ratings disaster of S2 Fox was breathing down the necks of everyone, especially the writers, to make MM more "viewer-friendly".-(yeah, right!) ...it wasn't really until "closure", though some would say "Through a glass . . . darkly" that the writer/producers and even carter essentially said "f*** you" to Fox and made the kind of stories they wanted to make.

PEACE,

se7en :ouro:

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What I meant with evil was just that he was turned into a bad guy, whatever his motives were. I always thought that the Group must have brainwashed him. But it was never explained. And an explanation wouldn't make the idea good. Chip tried to write Watts that way also in The Mikado and I hated it.

What pisses me off most is that confrontation scene. Watts turned against the group in the s2 finales (one of the finest TV show episodes ever) and for all Frank knows was left for dead. The next time they see each other they're enemies. That wouldn't make sense even if Mr. Black was a bit unstable at the point.

But these things must have been discussed to death already...

BTW I don't hate season 3, it gets better after Duggan leaves. But it's obviously not as good as the first two.

Edited by OS_

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Guest se7en
What I meant with evil was just that he was turned into a bad guy, whatever his motives were. I always thought that the Group must have brainwashed him. But it was never explained. And an explanation wouldn't make the idea good. Chip tried to write Watts that way also in The Mikado and I hated it.

What pisses me off most is that confrontation scene. Watts turned against the group in the s2 finales (one of the finest TV show episodes ever) and for all Frank knows was left for dead. The next time they see each other they're enemies. That wouldn't make sense even if Mr. Black was a bit unstable at the point.

But these things must have been discussed to death already...

BTW I don't hate season 3, it gets better after Duggan leaves. But it's obviously not as good as the first two.

......... they don't "both" see each other as enemies. Frank sees Watts as an enemy only because he was still in the group.-(remember that throughout most of the season we see peter mainly through the eyes of soul-torn Frank and to a degree Emma. there are many wonderful moments in S3 where the camera justs rests on peter as we see him contemplating his life and his actions, especially the ending Collateral Damage. O'Quinn is simply brilliant though underused in S3!) Peter was NEVER made into a bad guy in S3 and never saw Frank as an enemy. nor was he brainwashed. he was trapped in the group and given a choice of remaining, and protecting his family, or dying.-(this is why Mabuis was Watt's shadow in almost every ep he appeared in.)-although he feared for frank's life as early as The innocents it took most of the season to get up the courage to defy the group and save Frank AND Jorden from them. IMHO the ugly mess M&W made of the show by the end of S2 was redeemed beautifully in S3.

...i can say, for myself of course, that had S3 not occured and been as brilliant as it is i would likely be a lot less of a fanatic than i am now. And as many good, if not downright great, stuff that happened the first 3/4-(almost)- of S2 i and others here have opined that the awefullness and silliness of the ending eps of S2 paved the way for the excellence of S3. So although M&W seriously dropped the ball and ran the show into the ground with ultra religious goop, and turned the group into a Cult, at least it paved the way for the redemption of Frank Black in S3. ....but that's getting off track a bit. -LOL.

...as a Super Adminstrator i am certainly not trying to convert people to S3 either but like with everyone else and what they love most about MM i enjoy discussing what i am passionate about and, yeah at times, defending it a bit if the spirit moves me, so to speak - :praying: ...and it so happens that i am most passionate about Seasons-1/3 for varied and numerous different reasons. S1 more for the stories and the arc. S3 more for the hellish but extraordinary emotional/spiritual journey that Frank goes through to regain his self-worth and, ever so slowly, learning to let go of things he cannot change but not giving up the fight against evil.

anywaaaaay, sorry for the temporary hijacking of the thread!

~PEACE ALL,

se7en :ouro:

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Obviously we have very different opinions, so there's nothing much I can say to that. The Group stuff in season three just isn't interesting without the religious aspects. You do make some interesting points about Watts, though. It's a typical 1013 storyline that hints to an explanation but is never really explored.

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Guest se7en

...yeah, it's very typical of 1013, especially with MM, to be purposefully vague or to spend an entire season uncoiling a particular character's motives/motivations.

I'd be lying if i said i got even half the subtleties of S3, or S1, the first time around. very much like S1, much is spoken between the lines in S3 and sometimes not even with dialog! -lol. ...it's the return to this S1-type of subtle storytelling in S3 that's just one other reason why i treasure it. -(as many good things as there were about parts S2 M&W simply lost any sense of subtelty. it seemed to myself and others that they preferred to bash almost every plot point over the viewer's head with a lead-sledgehammer.)

There are exceptions of course, but that's my overall assesment; they lacked subtely, they started and then dropped too many storylines-(owls/roosters?)- so to me that means they somewhat lacked focus and direction of where they wanted to go so that by the end of the season, it simply wasn't MM any longer to my mind. -I felt like i'd been on an emotional rollercoaster, to be sure, but came off it feeling unsatisfied, cheated and to emotionally wasted to care anymore. I know that's not what M&W were aiming for but for many of us that was, sadly, the end result.

I know there are those here who despise nearly everything about S2 but i am not one of them inspite of what some may think. The first half held such friggin' promise for a great season despite the fact that i was initially uncomfortable with them straying too far from the show's roots. but i was enjoying it for what it was; it's own unique journey. And though you'll likely never hear any of this on the extras of the S2 box set, perhaps things would have jelled more that last half-(especially the last 1/3)-of the season had C.C. and Henriksen not soured on M&W. but i suppose speculating is useless now i reckon.(??)

~se7en :ouro:

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