Never The Twain Shall Meet

[ethsnafu]

Hi folks,

I saw an interesting comment from Frank Spotnitz fairly recently in which he explained that it was always Chris Carter's original vision that "Millennium" and "X-Files" would exist in two distinct universes in much the same way as "Harsh Realm" evidently took place in a reality where Frank Black and Peter Watts did not exist.

I found this to be somewhat confusing since I recall Chris Carter confirming, at some point, that David and Gillian's doubles as seen in the background of an early (possible Pilot - I have brain fog due to man-flu) Millennium episode were intended to be Mulder and Scully. Evidently, both can not be true.

The gist of what Frank seemed to be saying was that "Millennium" and "X-Files" came together as unintended bed fellows when Jose Chung was brought into the "Millennium" franchise at which point the two were irrevocably linked by a character and their coexistence couldn't be denied but in a strange twist this coexistence was denied when an episode of "X-Files" was head playing in the background of a scene of a season three episode of "Millennium".

It was only when "Millennium" ended that we got the confirmation we needed with "X-Files: Millennium" as Frank was shown to occupy the same universe as Mulder and Scully but even that sullies things a little. If Lance can appear as Frank in an episode of X-Files then evidently he is Frank in that universe so how can Terry O'Quinn appear as someone other than Peter Watts not once but on more than one occasion.

They seem to have had an 'on' and 'off' policy with regards to "X-Files" and "Millennium" cohabiting and I wondered if you guys had any thoughts as to what was behind this? Was it always CC's intention that the two would exist in distinct worlds until such time as they were dragged together or was it more, as I would assert, a case of "we're still undecided" for much of the show.

Eth

[Earthnut]

If Lance can appear as Frank in an episode of X-Files then evidently he is Frank in that universe so how can Terry O'Quinn appear as someone other than Peter Watts not once but on more than one occasion.

Maybe they used the theory with Terry O'Quinn that, everyone has an identical twin somewhere. Just a thought.

Yes, the "on and off" policy does seem to apply. I'm thankful that they did have an episode in The X-Files with Frank Black, it did help to bring more closure. On the other hand, that episode does open the door for the 3 of them to make a movie together. Only problem that I can see is Lance wouldn't be first in the starring credits, he'd be listed 3rd. Sure hope he never accepts a "co-star" credit. He's the man.

[ethsnafu]

I happen to think that if Frank did make an appearance in the next XF Movie (and if there is one I expect that to be the case) then it would be as a cameo just to acknowledge the hard work and support of Millennium Fans over the years. In the same way that if a Millennium Movie was made and Lance was sharing his screen-time with David and Gillian, I think we would feel miffed and I expect it would be the same for XF fans if M&S were not getting the bulk of attention.

I also forgot that Sarah-Jane Redmond has made two (or possibly three) appearances in the X-Files despite her character Lucy Butler existing in the same universe. I guess they were cloning a lot of people back in the days of The Syndicate.

Eth

[Earthnut]

The X-Files already have a couple movies under their belt. It's time to bring Lance back, and in the starring role as Frank Black, who speaks. He sure has earned it. I have to disagree with a cameo, I just don't think it's enough to acknowledge all the work and time invested throughout all these years in the campaign. A cameo isn't even a pacifier.

You don't need to clone with Lucy Butler around, she just changes her appearance as needed. It does make you wonder why they bring someone back to play a different character then the last one, and not have someone completely new in the part. I guess they think we would never notice the same actor.

[ethsnafu]

Oh I couldn't agree with you more. Ideal scenario: Lance Henriksen helms a Millennium Movie, I think we all agree on that score. More likely scenario: Lance Henriksen gets a cameo role in the next XF movie.

Part of the reason I have begun to think like this was is Carter's assertion that no-one at Fox knows much about, or cares about, Millennium these days. In the case of the X-Files 2 Movie it was acknowledged that the continued efforts of the fans, coupled with the support of Fox executives who lobbied from the inside, was the reason the film was given a green light.

If you have the suits on your side and suits who feel passionately about the franchise then they will listen to the fans. If they suits haven't a clue what on earth you are championing you have a long, long way to go to get them to take you seriously. I don't think it's impossible, I just think it's unlikely.

You don't have to abandon a desire for a Millennium Movie, I never will, but with the uncertainty regarding it what if you could at least get Frank Black back even if it's just a cursory nod and wink to the fans of Millennium? Would you take the opportunity because some Frank Black is better than no Frank Black at all or would you turn it down on principle.

Let's face it, an appearance by Lance in XF3 (if there is going to be one) could well reinvigorate interest in the franchise, the character and Millennium and be precisely what we need to put the franchise back in the headlines in a significant way which hasn't happened since 1999. It could be the last piece of the puzzle that secures a Millennium Movie.

Oh well that's all thinking aloud and rambling I guess.

Eth

[Guest soylentgreenspeople]

Oh I couldn't agree with you more. Ideal scenario: Lance Henriksen helms a Millennium Movie, I think we all agree on that score. More likely scenario: Lance Henriksen gets a cameo role in the next XF movie.

Part of the reason I have begun to think like this was is Carter's assertion that no-one at Fox knows much about, or cares about, Millennium these days. In the case of the X-Files 2 Movie it was acknowledged that the continued efforts of the fans, coupled with the support of Fox executives who lobbied from the inside, was the reason the film was given a green light.

If you have the suits on your side and suits who feel passionately about the franchise then they will listen to the fans. If they suits haven't a clue what on earth you are championing you have a long, long way to go to get them to take you seriously. I don't think it's impossible, I just think it's unlikely.

You don't have to abandon a desire for a Millennium Movie, I never will, but with the uncertainty regarding it what if you could at least get Frank Black back even if it's just a cursory nod and wink to the fans of Millennium? Would you take the opportunity because some Frank Black is better than no Frank Black at all or would you turn it down on principle.

Let's face it, an appearance by Lance in XF3 (if there is going to be one) could well reinvigorate interest in the franchise, the character and Millennium and be precisely what we need to put the franchise back in the headlines in a significant way which hasn't happened since 1999. It could be the last piece of the puzzle that secures a Millennium Movie.

Oh well that's all thinking aloud and rambling I guess.

Eth

I TOTALLY am for having Frank Black in an X-Files movie ONLY if that helps get a MM movie! If they only bring him back for a small minor role and we never see Frank Black again, i would have to roll around on the floor and cry.. Everyone (Including Lance himself) deserves the millennium movie... I truly believe that the men in suits are EXTREMELY underestimating the money power a MM movie would have especially with Terry O'Quin cast! If X-Files gets multiple movies then millennium deserves at least ONE!

[Orodromeus]

Just getting back to the original message:

They seem to have had an 'on' and 'off' policy with regards to "X-Files" and "Millennium" cohabiting and I wondered if you guys had any thoughts as to what was behind this? Was it always CC's intention that the two would exist in distinct worlds until such time as they were dragged together or was it more, as I would assert, a case of "we're still undecided" for much of the show.

Eth

I adamantly believe that Carter (nor anyone actually) never intended his creations to interact, and I don't think he sees them sharing the same world today. XF and MM deal with quite different themes and while you could say that it's possible to guess the same mind created them, the mythologies that they built are very much incompatible.

All the "cross-overs" between them were, as far as I am concerned, either forced upon the writers, or placed as kind of well-meaning winks to the fans. It is obvious that the episode "MM" in XF would never have been made had not MM been cancelled right before. I also think that things like Mulder & Scully's stand-ins in "Lamentation" were nods to the fandom just like the "10:13" time stamps or the naming of the Brian Dixon character in "The Time Is Now". If you take such little things too far, you end up very quickly in contradictions: if they share the same universe, how can XF be a TV show (in "Human Essence" I think)? If one one-off apparition is enough to establish a common universe, then XF shares the same universe as Homicide ("Unusual Suspects"), and thus with The Wire as well (Det. Munch appears in a cameo), etc etc. These things are placed for fun and are fully inconsequential.

As for Jose Chung, I'd say it's a case of a writer recycling a character he enjoyed (and interpreted by an actor whose performance was universally loved) instead of creating a new character that would have the same attributes and mannerisms. I wouldn't have cried at a scandal if Jose Chung had popped up again in XF, post his death in "Doomsday Defense". Writers, I believe, are not as concerned about such minutiae in their creative process.

I believe they always kept the posibility open for a cross-over while MM was on the air, but never managed to find a good story to tell. I still find it frustrating that MM is often referred to as "taking place in the same universe as XF" and sometimes placed under the umbrella term "X-Files franchise" (see Wikipedia here, or the XF wiki, which mixes XF and MM in its articles), as if MM can't stand on its own two feet.

[ty7du]

I have to agree with the above poster. Richard Belzer has acted as Detective John Munch in 9 different shows, even Sesame Street! I remember watching Homicide: Life on the Street and they had a cross-over with Law & Order, and J.K. Simmons is a bad dude in both episodes. Then that same actor plays Dr. Emil Skoda in 3 L&O shows. I mean, in MacGyver, there was this guy who played the villain in many episodes throughout the seasons. And Eddie Kaye Thomas (best known for the American Pie movies) played 2 different characters on L&O three seasons apart, even though they were minor roles to give information to the detectives, I even remembered him.

So, TV shows do this all the time. I do remember, Homicide: Life on the Street never wanted to use the same people as different characters, and I don't think they did.

And if you look at the credits of Millennium online, you can see people playing small roles (in the background or one line) in a couple of episodes. Yet, no one was none the wiser, I've never actually caught these myself, but it's there on imdb.com

While I'm at it, I think it was rather silly to have that X-Files soundbite playing in the background. I always felt it was cheap. I liked the more subtle linking/nod as the Morley cigarette on the floor in the Millennium Group's storage room (where they unwisely had the code 1999, really!)

[Guest WaveCrest]

Regarding the Terry O'Quinn interview video which was posted in another TIWWA thread recently, in which it was said that he had a recurring role in The X Files. I thought he played different characters in each of his X Files guest star appearances?

[ty7du]

Plus, I remember him from the first X-Files film, in the beginning, as a FBI agent. That's my recollection. Been ages since I saw that film.