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The Lindelof and Carter Connection

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Dear friends,

I have observed a strange phenomena these last few days that has left me a little perplexed. To illustrate this phenomena I will share with you a comment I observed at screenrant.com in relation to Damon Lindelhof's thoughts on the "Lost" finale.

You accomplished the emotional part, Lindelof. The “book-end” technique of using the same opening scene in reverse for the closing scene was creative and effective. I’ll give you kudos for that.

But on the conceptual, nuts-and-bolts plot-centric side…well, I don’t know where you live. Lucky you. But, I wouldn’t stomp out any flaming bags on your porch for a while.

And after an entire season relentlessly harassing the message boards, there is no further need of “Evil”. Thus, closeth my eye, too. See you in another series, Brutha. Probably not, though. Say hello to Chris Carter in Purgatory for me.

Do you ever feel like you must reside in four toed foot that is the remnants of the large statue of Taweret?

I have seen the ire being directed towards Damon and Carlton and the perceived failure of the finale to please all fans being likened to the resolution of the "X-Files" a number of times now. I don't recall watching "The Truth" and having any overwhelming feeling of being cheated or duped. I don't recall sitting thinking "...I haven't a clue what that was about or what the whole point of the last nine years of the show was..." and I certainly don't recall thinking that the threads were left dangling and reams of questions were left unanswered.

I accept that we are presented with the idea the colonization would occur in 2012 and therefore we are not going to see that aspect of the narrative played out on screen but I don't recall feeling my diastolic pressure rising or my temples thumping because of it.

Was there a huge outpouring of angry fans at the time of the end of the "X-Files"? I ask this because I wasn't involved in XF fandom and have no idea if fans the world over were throwing themselves off their balconies after the episode aired.

I'm just trying to get some perspective as to why the end of "Lost" is being likened to the end the "X-Files". I can't see the comparison at all.

Eth

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Guest teedub

I can't say that I thought the endings were similar, but I found the series(es?) similar. I was a huge X-Files fan (and it was because of that, that I watched Millennium when it debuted), but I felt it should have ended after the 4th or 5th season. In the additional 4 or 5 years that it *did* stay on, I felt that the producers added so much extra junk to the mythology, killing off main staples of it, and completely altering its direction more than once. By the time the end came, I was already so disappointed with the show that I knew the finale could never win me back.

Same with Lost. I loved the first season. Starting immediately with the second season, I felt so much more crap was added to the mystery/story/mythology that there was no way any of it could be resolved. I've also felt that Lost's writing was always inconsistent. Some things literal, some things metaphorical. Going into the finale, I knew that no matter *what* they did, I would be disappointed.

Edited by teedub
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Guest Laurent.

The endings were somewhat similar because they both added next to nil to the mythology of the show, yet closed the curtains in a very emotional and classy way. In that sense, they both answered "larger" questions in regard to the meaning of the show: the search for faith in one case, and the meaning of life (as a test, or a chance for redemption) in the other.

I like both finale. Though I feel like X-Files had answered its questions before its end and LOST just decided to push them aside... yet LOST was way more constant in its final years (goes with nature of the beast I guess, and that's not necessarily a quality).

Anywaaaay, that was my two cents.

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And I'm grateful for your two cents folks, thanks for sharing. In many way both shows struggled for binary reasons in my opinion. Chris Carter became of the opinion that the X-Files would lose it's credibility and the loyal support of its fans if it didn't answer the questions it had been posing. I believe the reason why Morgan and Wong left during season four of the show was due to their growing frustration that the mysteries that the X-Files posed had no end in sight and there was an internal shift within the production team to provide more closure. The show did a grand job in wrapping up the conspiracy arc but it did so with two seasons of the show left to air and there's a palpable sense of flogging a dead horse in season's eight and nine with regards to the mytharc despite their being some superb episodes in both those seasons.

Carlton and Damon, on the other hand, have gone on record to say that they understood that the mysteries of Lost were a vital component to it's success and as a soon as a mystery was given a conclusion there was a need to pose a new mystery to maintain the show's momentum as an engaging puzzle.

Too much closure too soon for one and too little for the other.

Laurent I am fascinated that you mention Lost being more consistent in its final years than the X-Files especially in light of the fact that many consider S5 and S6 of Lost to be evidence of a decline in quality and consistency.

Feel free to share your thoughts if you have the time.

Eth

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  • 3 weeks later...

A quick reply to this...

From its launch, Lost has been compared to XF. There are big differences, yes, but it's easy to see why: both quickly set up the mechanic of making viewers ask questions, delivering answers that lead to more questions, and both were popular shows that had no significant competitors of a similar nature. Twin Peaks ended before XF began, and XF ended before Lost began: there was a place in the scene for an addictive show full of mystery and mythology. But also, with that comparison, there came the inevitable bad reputation of XF that it never delivered and that it never answered the mysteries it introduced. Regardless of the truth, that's XF's reputation. And it seems that regardless of the outcome, many reviewers were determined to keep the XF-Lost comparison to the very end, despite the fact that they were growing more and more different as Lost progressed.

Lost's finale is quite the opposite of "The Truth". The Truth was 2/3 summarizing the mythology, as if Carter wanted to prove to everybody that was still doubting him that there really were answers to be found in XF's mythology, contrarily to popular belief. Lost's finale was a case of saying good-bye to the characters and to hell with answers. And those few answers that were given, meaning about the flash-sideways, were, frankly, off topic compared to what the show established in its first 5 seasons. As for "The Truth", as Laurent said, it enraged fans because it didn't add anything beyond setting things up so that XF could continue as a movie franchise (ironically, it was so badly received that the chances it would were greatly compromised by that same finale).

What both finales do have in common is that, through different ways, they managed to splinter their fandom into those who liked it an those who were enraged with it (and those in the middle who were rather lukewarm or bored with it). And that's where the comparison is coming from, I'm guessing.

All of this is less apparent now and one is less likely to want to approach a balcony with suicidal thoughts when re-watching it today. But regardless of what I thought about them, I do think the reception of both finales have seriously compromised the way these series will be remembered in the future.

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Lost's finale is quite the opposite of "The Truth". The Truth was 2/3 summarizing the mythology, as if Carter wanted to prove to everybody that was still doubting him that there really were As for "The Truth", as Laurent said, it enraged fans because it didn't add anything beyond setting things up so that XF could continue as a movie franchise (ironically, it was so badly received that the chances it would were greatly compromised by that same finale).

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. I didn't know that X-Files fans had reacted quite so negatively to the finale. For what it is worth, I was an casual X-Files viewer at the time (even if I may have come to it late) the show ended and I remember the finale being described as an ill-conceived clip-show that was little more than a dramatic device for, as you say, providing a recap of the last nine years and giving them some sense of order and coherence but I still don't think it was as soul destroying as the ending of Lost.

Those of my friends who watched Lost from week to week as an idle way to pass an hour could not recall the Hurley bird, The Waving Man, The Outrigger chase and countless other moments in order to feel cheated by a lack of resolution for these questions. The pedants like me were less forgiving than my friends when it did end as we clung to "Chekhov's gun" as if it was our new religion.

At the time that I was watching the X-Files I did not own the series on DVD, I did not have the ability to record the show and I tended to watch it when I caught it and catch up with episodes I had missed, usually out of sequence, when they were on repeat which contributes to my less than adroit knowledge of the show. As a casual viewer who had no contact with XF fandom and who watched the show in a sporadic manner I still feel like I had a decent grasp of how the mythology of the show fits together in the grander scheme of things. With the exception of what happens in 2012. I felt I understood elements such as Purity, The Syndicate, The Rebel Aliens, The Super Soldiers (just) and so on.

As an avid viewer of Lost with all the capabilities at my disposal to watch the show ad nauseaum and become entrenched it is fandom I couldn't, in all honesty, posit a coherent explanation of how that show fits together. I have seen others attempt to do so and they seem fairly content with the explanation they have provided for themselves but if they are honest their resolutions depend on contradictions, suppositions and down right fantasy half the time in order to make it work. As you say, Lost ended by resolving a load of old hogwash (sorry folks) that it had introduced in its final season and raised two fingers rampant to anything that came before it.

So, when X-Files fans bemoan the lack answers are they bemoaning a lack of a satisfying resolution to the main arc of the series (the colonisation) or a lack of resolutions for questions based on fan pedantry such as why it was never explained why the removal of Scully's chip caused cancer and so on. I was, as I said, not too bothered that we didn't the see the colonisation storyline play out on screen. I fail to see how it could be done well with regards to the budget and the format but I'm interested to hear if that was the crux of the problem.

Put it this way. I tried to find a page that lists the unanswered questions with regards to the X-Files and couldn't find one. I did, however, find a forum discussing this very subject which made me smile. Search for a list of unanswered questions for Lost, however, and make a long drink, put your feet up and allow yourself an hour or two of reading time.

Eth

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  • Elders (Moderators)

I have no idea whether this was in the minds of 1013 when they wrote the finale. There were fan complaints that much of it was a "clip show", which apparently is unacceptable for some people.

But, I looked at it as there was the ultimate threat to Mulder, that if he was found guilty he would suffer the ultimate penalty. The only thing anyone could do was to spell out all his reasons, over all those years, which culminated in his ultimate actions. It wasn't just a kangaroo court, it was an extreme means to discover exactly what Mulder knew, and also everyone else. The only way the "authorities" could find out everything was to push the issue to the limits in a way that got everyone spilling the beans. So why was Mulder able to escape? It was because the powers-that-be had all the information they needed, in terms of who-knows-what - the "who" and the "what" being equally important. That was the perfect scenario for defusing Mulder's campaign, and once they had all those witnesses telling their story they had every important person in the palms of their hands. From that point, they didn't need Mulder to die; in fact, as CSM said "kill Mulder and and you risk turning one man's religion into a crusade." All they needed was for everyone else, in sheer desparation, to say out loud what they knew. A "legal" gun to the head.

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Guest Laurent.

Wow! Actually Libby, that makes a lot of sense. It does explain the easy escape; the fact that the helicopters didn't bother to chase Mulder and Scully or Doggett and Reyes; and the "all if forgiven" of IWTB (since Mulder wasted 8 years in hiding).

Well said.

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:clapping: I love it. I love it. I love it.

I am nearing the end of a mythology run at the moment myself and I am going to watch "The Truth" with a new set of eyes this time around. I would love to discuss this theory with Frank Spotnitz maybe? Do you think we should try? He does respond to people at his blog and I'd love to know if this is 'the truth' people have been seeking.

Eth

Don't forget folks the little green cross in the bottom of posts is there for a reason. :whistling:

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