Goodbye To All That/XF-Millennium

[ty7du]

If there had been a fourth season, I wouldn't be surprised if there would have been no mention of Peter Watts as was done with Lara Means... hmmm....

I agree with you in theory that his death would be powerful, but it didn't play that way for me. I was beginning to root again for Watts where he tells Frank that he was protecting him, that he knew he was in way over his head, that the Group has spiraled out of control.

It would have hit more home, if they would have shown him battle with the Millennium Group hitman (maybe the guy from the ambulance?) in a desperate fight to show him go down gracefully, not willing to go down without a fight.

I wonder sometimes if the scripts were longer or if some scenes have been filmed but cut out for time, or if they weren't needed as they were explained in an earlier or later scene.

Shame there are no deleted scenes on the DVDs, I would have been fine with rough looking video with the timecode running wild over it. Alas, it was never meant to be.

[ethsnafu]

Maybe they genuinely didn't know what to do with Peter at the end. They did cross their fingers throughout the third season that a fourth might be a possibility so I doubt the original intention was to write Peter out at the end of the third. Maybe they had considered leaving his resolution like that to carry over into the fourth season if there were one but provide an end of some sort if not.

I suppose it boils down to how much notice they had that the show had been cancelled whilst outstanding episodes were still in production stages and that's something I have genuinely no idea about.

Eth

[Orodromeus]

Very interesting thread!

First of all, thank you Eth for pointing out the "...we want to know what [insert character] did next..." problem. This is the trouble with sequels: people cannot just say that enough is enough, or rather, enough is as good as a feast, and call it a day. Sequelitis is the surest way to turn a lively universe into a badly perceived profit-seeking franchise. And that's what I think happened with XF. By the end of the 7th season there was ample closure; the last 2 seasons are a cast of drawing out a re-hash of already established storylines, with an added twist of religion and melodrama.

But there's something to be said about the way the two 1013 shows have ended. Fans ask for a third XF film to have closure on the colonization storyline: it is a classic case of the "good guys" against the "bad guys" and who would win in the end. In this view, the series would have been "the mystery" unfolding, and XF3 would be "the action" capping everything off. XF rarely was about the leading characters taking action in the grander scheme of things: they were merely observers and, though their personal lives were greatly affected by the surrounding mythology, they were passive receivers of developments that were beyond their hands' reach. At least during the first 7 seasons, after which the focus became radically different: the leading characters would act, would be the world savers (with their messianic offspring).

Quite similarly, MM featured a very personal story of a man and his family against another mythology centered around evil. For the better part of 3 seasons, Frank led his personal battle against that evil, under its many forms, but never hoped to eradicate it or not even protect everyone from it. Like in the XF's mythology, the leads' actions were nearly inconsequential on the greater battle between Good and Evil (with capital G and E's). Frank suffered losses (Catherine), enjoyed small victories (resisting Al Pepper for example), saved a few, failed to save some others. But at its heart, the show was about a state of being; it never was about definite victories or failures. It was more interested in exploring the fact that Frank was worried than explaining whatever it was that worried Frank, something that could be changed to fit that week's particular episode. "Wait, Worry, Who Cares?" rather than "Gift or Curse?, 666, My name is Legion". Mulder & Scully's investigations brought forth dark deeds that asked for the world to stop and meditate on how power can corrupt. Neither shows were interested in making triumphant heroes out of the lead characters. Thus, the closure in the respective storylines could only be partial, or bittersweet, or ambiguous (at the risk of sparking sequelitis in their fandoms).

It's certainly not a case of "characters over plot" in terms of importance: MM and XF both introduce very interesting characters and plots, and both serve to illustrate larger themes; unlike many other shows (Eth mentioned Lost), both are tools, not ends.

"Goodbye To All That" featured Frank making a drastic change in his way of life (moving away from Washington) in order to protect his daughter from evil influences. In short, the same state of things as in the Pilot (a bit like XF's "Requiem" or "I Want To Believe"). An emotional closure that was fitting to a series ending, especially when coupled with "Seven And One": with the chaos behind the scenes in the end of season 3 I think they managed really well! Apart from that final scene, I find the serial killer story of Via Dolorosa/GTAT pretty badly handled or at least not adapted to a series finale, but that's my personal opinion. The last scene of Frank with Jordan provides a thematic and emotional closure, without necessarily providing a closure to the larger picture. "Who will win, Owls or Roosters, or Legion or 'Samiel'?" is like "Will the colonization happen or will humans survive?": essential questions created by the shows' mythologies but questions Carter chose not to answer.

And then comes the episode "XF: Millennium", which singlehandedly destroys the Group, proves the Roosters wrong, and gives a happy ending for Frank & Jordan. Closure, but quite unsatisfying in its simplicity. That episode was so unlike MM's the subtlety of season 1 and the historical depth of season 2 that it doesn't feel like MM at all! And I'm not talking just about the zombies. In my view, this episode was quite unnecessary.

I'm interested in seeing where Carter wants to bring his story with a third XF film: a simplistic heroic victory or a repetitive postponement of the deadline? And most here have expressed their views about a MM film, and it seems what is wanted is the "MM feel" rather than "Frank Black vs The Group Part IV".

I won't talk about the ridiculously over-rated "Lost" because I don't want to be

[ethsnafu]

What a superb musing Oro. I enjoyed reading that very much. Thank you.

I guess the one thing I agree with the writers of "Lost" about is that every question answered only leads to more questions. At what point do fans accept the closure they are given. Imagine, if you will, that XF3 depicts Mulder and Scully thwarting the colonisation and heading off into the sunset to live happily ever after there will no doubt be some element of that closure that inspires yet another "...what happens next..." It's the same for Millennium I guess. It does seem that if Millennium was given another outing it would dispense with much of what we have been accustomed to as fans. I think it's a given that the season two depiction of the group would be jettisoned I would assert that it's fairly unlikely that the group would be touched upon very much at all. I doubt we would see a Lucy Butler storyline and Chris' only comments to date on this seem to indicate he would tap into global paranoia regarding terrorism this time around. If a stand alone story were produced (akin to XF2) with a terrorist plot at its heart and little of the show as we know it would Millennium fans be any more satisfied than they already are with what many would perceive as a wasted opportunity.

Eth

[Earthnut]

Yes Orodromeus, superb read, thank you.

Neither shows were interested in making triumphant heroes out of the lead characters. Thus, the closure in the respective storylines could only be partial, or bittersweet, or ambiguous (at the risk of sparking sequelitis in their fandoms).

I so agree, they were never depicted as "heroes," just extraordinary, yet at the same time ordinary people, doing their job and doing their best to have some form of postive and truthful impact in the world. There are people out in the world doing the same thing and no telling what they are coming up against. This draws me to quotes from Criminal Minds, another favorite show of mine. These are just a few from season one.

"The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary. Men alone are quite capable of every wickedness."

(Joseph Conrad)

"All is a riddle, and the key to a riddle...is another riddle." (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough, and liked it, never really care for anything else." (Ernest Hemingway)

"What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world, remains and is immortal." (Albert Pine)

"Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society must take the place of the victim, and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness." (W.H. Auden)

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." (Albert Einstein)

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." (George Orwell)

"When a good man is hurt, all who would be called good must suffer with him." (Euripides)

[Guest nordhaus]

Hello,

Would not the mere fact that the world survived the Millennium (whether it be 2000 or 2001) prove that the Roosters were, in fact, incorrect?

Would not then, the Owls have "won", thereby guiding the modern iteration of the Millennium Group?

I view the wretched "Millennium" X-Files Episode as more of an aberration.............perhaps a more extremist branch of the Millennium Group involved in some vile untoward experimentation.

As was previously mentioned, I cannot believe that a 2000 year old group would suddenly implode after intense infighting, especially given the external incursion by Odessa ("Owls", "Roosters"). On the contrary, one would think those events would rather galvanize the group.

And what of the "new" Old Man? Would he not have some role in preserving the Group?

So many questions.........and only 32,708 days remaining to figure it all out...........

N~

[ethsnafu]

As was previously mentioned, I cannot believe that a 2000 year old group would suddenly implode after intense infighting, especially given the external incursion by Odessa ("Owls", "Roosters"). On the contrary, one would think those events would rather galvanize the group.

The thing is it isn't stated that they did implode after a period of infighting. It is stated that they no longer exist by the time Mulder and Scully come to investigate what remains of them. The reasons why this occurred are merely fan suppositions, usually mine.

Canon infers that the group no longer exists and any guesses as to why this is, or is not the case, are simply theories.

Eth

[Earthnut]

The, or a group, could still exist in secret, and probably with its own agenda.

The Old Man may no longer be alive or part of the secret agenda.

My Ouroboros says there 922 days left. Nordhaus, which calendar are you using? I'm using the download Ouro for 2012.

[ethsnafu]

Would it be 32,708 to the next Millennium perhaps? We're being colonised in 2012 so maybe we ought to have something else to look forward to.

Eth

[Earthnut]

Would it be 32,708 to the next Millennium perhaps? We're being colonised in 2012 so maybe we ought to have something else to look forward to.

Eth

I'm not looking forward to colonization. Can we skip that part, please? Hey, I managed to skip over Legion and Mabius , what's one more evil to avoid? I can do it, right?