Goodbye To All That/XF-Millennium

[Orodromeus]

Thanks, people!

I guess the one thing I agree with the writers of "Lost" about is that every question answered only leads to more questions. At what point do fans accept the closure they are given. Imagine, if you will, that XF3 depicts Mulder and Scully thwarting the colonisation and heading off into the sunset to live happily ever after there will no doubt be some element of that closure that inspires yet another "...what happens next..." It's the same for Millennium I guess. It does seem that if Millennium was given another outing it would dispense with much of what we have been accustomed to as fans.

No, I'd say there's a difference between the "answers leading to more questions" mechanism and the "what happens next" trope. Twin Peaks, Lost, to a great extent XF, and a great deal of MM s2 & 3 were about raising mysteries and unfolding the answers slowly by leading the viewer through a series of revelations-questions-revelations. That's a now-classic structure for shows based around mysteries, and hopefully it will all lead to a coherent picture at the end. It seems MM didn't have enough time to put enough coherence in its thematic direction to reach the point where it could be capped off by a single closure episode, hence the bitter taste left by the "XF:MM" episode and the fans' willingness to do virtual seasons.

A sequel is either that the mysteries have been resolved and it has all been leading to a confrontation, a climax, a resolution; or, the climax happened and not everybody died and people want to know what happened to the characters afterwards, meaning "what happens next". An XF3 would fall in the former (colonization); another Sex and the City would be the latter; in Shakespeare everybody dies, so he is spared by this sequelitis.

And then of course you can just ignore your storyline and just give fans "more of the same", and I don't mean anything negative by that: monster/serial killer -of-the-week episodes/movies tackling typical themes of your universe but disconnected to the overall mythology. That's the direction a MM movie on terrorism paranoia would more or less take.

[ethsnafu]

I think the thing with Millennium was that there was a sense of the show struggling to define itself in the third season. How you you provide a satisfying closure to a show when you aren't sure in what the raison d'être of the show was for much of the season? To illustrate this point, Kay Reindl once commented that the mandate given to the writers during the third season was "no angels, no secret societies, no demons" which was, as she noted, more a case of what not to put in that what to put in. Bereft of any clear picture of where they were going that season they simply endeavoured to adhere to that mandate. With no overall vision of where it was going no one was sure what questions were being posed and therefore how could anyone hope to provide an answer.

Interestingly when Chip Johannessen pulled it around after the departure of Michael Duggan you can see the show return to telling exactly those sorts of stories with angels (Omerta, Borrowed Time), demons (Antipas, Seven and One) and secret societies (Forcing The End) back in the picture. Realising direction had been lost and cancellation loomed, the show-runners issued a press release to promote the final seven episodes of the show and it was likened to a arc that was to tie in, thematically, with the seven seals of the book of Revelation (no, I've never quite gotten that either).

I always perceived "Goodbye To All That" to be the closure of that arc rather than a defining full-stop for a show that had gone through a number of permutations and thematics during its three years on air.

I still believe there was no need for XF:MM, I had gotten what I wanted from "Goodbye To All That" which hardly scratched every itch but was the best made of a bad situation. I was able to employ a little creative thinking to fill in the gaps myself.

XF:MM was a case of providing closure for the fans of the show. It was conceived as such (and certainly sold to Lance as such) before Frank Spotnitz realised such a thing was not practical within the confines of XF. This attempt to answer questions led to even more questions than "Goodbye To All That". This is why I feel there is some validity in what the "Lost" writers were asserting.

Whether it's "what happens next" or "what happened to" or "where is" or "why did the" sometimes you have to say 'enough now'. Which is what I would have liked to have heard said when someone proposed XF:MM.

Eth

[Orodromeus]

The lack of clear direction and the "what not to do" instead of "what to do" list surely didn't play in season 3's favour. Also, despite the fact that Carter said he wanted to be much more present in season 3 than he was in season 2, it didn't seem to be all that much the case. He did write "TEOTWAWKI" to pretty much launch the season and give it some sense of direction, but he seems to have disappeared for the rest of the season, with the exception of "Antipas", which could be argued that it was the Traditional Annual Bulter Episode, and "Seven & One" for closure's sake. So Carter's contributions seemed to be a series of one-shots instead of a more general guidance, at least that's as far as I can tell. Overall season 3 was rather the work of Duggan and then Johannessen/Horton, and it didn't have enough time to re-build an audience before it was cancelled.

Realising direction had been lost and cancellation loomed, the show-runners issued a press release to promote the final seven episodes of the show and it was likened to a arc that was to tie in, thematically, with the seven seals of the book of Revelation (no, I've never quite gotten that either).

That sounds really interesting! Was there artwork to go with that?

I still believe there was no need for XF:MM

Whether it's "what happens next" or "what happened to" or "where is" or "why did the" sometimes you have to say 'enough now'. Which is what I would have liked to have heard said when someone proposed XF:MM.

I'm with you on that! And on top of that, putting Spotnitz & Gilligan on writing duty for that episode was not the wisest decision. Spotnitz wrote some MM episodes but was not really part of the story-breaking team and Gilligan who had never touched MM material before...

[ethsnafu]

Hi Oro,

I have no idea if the stated seven episode arc came with artwork or not. I only learned about it thanks to the Millennium Comet which carried a soundbite from Chip Johannessen alluding to this arc back in the day. I'll see if I can track down the quote for you.

It is interesting that people often refer to S3 as the season that Chris Carter came home to make things all ship-shape again which, as you note, really wasn't the case as the only consistent voice in terms of show-running that season was Chip.

There's something else worth bearing in mind with Antipas. Kay Reindl stated online that elements of Antipas came from a rejected script of theirs "Fallen Angel". The script, which was supposedly about an FBI sanctioned exorcism focussing on Lucy Butler, apparently contained scenes set in a maze, an individual devoured by a snake, the issue of paternity with regards to Lucy's child and so on. Back in the day it was even touted by Fox that Antipas was a Kay and Erin script as you can see from the following...

ERIN MAHER & KAY REINDL did their share of battling the FOX censors

throughout 1998 in their roles as two of the best staff writers on

"Millennium". It seems to have become their staple to produce scripts that

FOX has a problem with representing. Their early '98 second season script

"Anemnesis" (notable for being the one and only Frank-less episode) had FOX

shocked and appauled they were trying to imply, on network television, that

Jesus Christ had had sex. They continued with "Fallen Angel", a script so

full of religious issues, violence, and gore that it has been dropped from

the schedule and will never be moved into production. Kay Reindl took time

later in the year to write an in-depth exclusive interview for "The

Millennial Comet" which spanned two of our issues. Our hats off to the two

ladies, and our hopes for the greatest success in the coming year (their

first third season script, "Antipas", is on the way)....

There's no conspiracy here mind. You'll know that it is not uncommon for writers to take drafts and ideas from unworkable scripts and make them workable whilst receiving a writing credit for that in the process and despite the above talking of a script for "Broken Angel", from what I understand it was merely a treatment rather than a completed work. I imagine if Chris did rework a Reindl/Maher script then he did so with consent. Kay has certainly never suggested otherwise.

Anyhow, it does go to show that Chris was doing what he could to support the show but he certainly wasn't helming it as some reports seem to believe.

On the issue of "XF:MM" the original intention was not to have had Spotnitz and Gilligan write the script. When cancellation was a real prospect for Millennium, speculation turned to the possibility of a TV Movie which Chris Carter declined to comment on but he did state his intention to write a crossover episode with the X-Files. He spoke at the time of his desire to see a Frank/Dana/Hollis episode and that he had ideas for how that would shortly take shape.

I would have loved to have seen what the results of that would have been.

Eth

[Guest teedub]

Carter made a big mistake walking away from the series after the first season. Season 2 "ruined" the show for me and there was nothing Season 3 could do to make up for that, other than bring back Chris Carter full time and pull a Bobby Ewing to pretend Season 2 never happened. That didn't happen, so we got convoluted on top of what was already convoluted.

XF:MM did nothing for me either, other than "oh cool, there's Frank!" The only closure I felt that it provided was the fact that we see Frank and Jordan literally riding off into the sunset, something that we didn't get at the end of Season 3 because they were likely writing for what they hoped would be a Season 4.

All in all, I thought Millennium was a fantastic premise with amazing acting talent to support it, but it was an opportunity that was totally squandered away by lack of leadership at the top, i.e. Chris Carter.

[Guest jamhaw]

The thing is it isn't stated that they did implode after a period of infighting. It is stated that they no longer exist by the time Mulder and Scully come to investigate what remains of them. The reasons why this occurred are merely fan suppositions, usually mine.

Canon infers that the group no longer exists and any guesses as to why this is, or is not the case, are simply theories.

Eth

I thought that Skinner said that they thought that was what happened? I suppose I shall have to watch that episode again but I distinctly recall Skinner saying something to the effect that the Group (in it's incarnation as a police consultant organisation) had disappeared. I have always presumed that that meant that the Group had merely gone underground. While the Group most probably ceased to be a united entity, the Owls and the Roosters had so little in common by this point that a split would be inevitable. I do not feel that the four or so men who we see in XF: Millenium could truly be all that remains of the Group, the Group was shown to have so many men and women from so many different nations as members that having only four American men left seems rather unlikely to me. I had presumed that they were but Rooster splinter group.

[ethsnafu]

Hi there Jamhaw, nice to have the opportunity to keyboard with you. On the issue of what Skinner said I have plucked the relevant but from a transcript.

SKINNER: I can't seem to find out. Apparently the group dissolved several months ago. They left no paper trail -- nothing. However ... I do have three other grave desecrations all within the last six months. Long Island ... Northern California, Arizona. All three graves contained the bodies of former FBI agents. All three were recent suicides.

You're certainly right that what Skinner says leaves enough wiggle room for contrary opinions and I certainly hold a different view myself but I was merely pointing out that 'I think that' is no substitute for 'it says onscreen'. I don't believe either that the four horsemen were all that remained of a centuries old group that had endured many a turmoil throughout its incarnations but I'm inclined to believe that that is what is Frank Spotnitz believed and it is implied in the script that that's the case. Until such time as anyone changes the canon I am forced to accept that the last word on The Millennium Group was that they had disbanded and disappeared. My personal canon is, however, much more exciting and I'm sure we'll see a lot more of The Group in 2012 right?

Eth

[Guest Black Francis]

Watts should have been one of the Four Horsemen/zombies.

Frank holding his former colleague at gunpoint in the basement, hesitating to pull the trigger and finally turning his brain into raspberry jam, would have been a powerful scene and a great payoff, in my opinion.

[ethsnafu]

Now that I would have loved to have seen. I don't think Peter Watts gets his due as a character and neither does Terry for that matter. It's not all that often you encounter a reference to Millennium that mentions him yet, with the exception of Lance Henriksen, he was the only constant throughout the whole three seasons of the show and integral to its arcs and stories certainly throughout the second and third season. I would guess the reason not to bring him into the X-Files episode would be that it demanded more explanation of who he was for XF viewers who might not be up to speed with Millennium and they had a hard enough task including Frank and The Millennium Group in a satisfying way without increasing the burden upon them. A little reference to him might have been a nice nod to the MM fans but lets' face it, if we started to ruminate as to how that episode could have been done better then we'd be here all night.

Eth

[Guest Ziddy]

I found season 3 for Millenium to be odd. The way 2nd season ended, it was obvious the writers did not see the showing being renewed.

- Which do you think is the more appropriate ending? 2nd or 3rd? I found 2nd season finale much more provoking than the 3rd. The sacrifice of the mother and man's mistake of true evil destroying all...

Season 3 I felt had a lot problems, especially due to Peter Watts and Emma. Emma supposedly so bright, I felt throughout the 3rd season to the contrary. And the last episode, Emma has to be one of the most dissapointing characters in television history. Trading Alzheimer to betray humanity? Pathetic. Really hits it home is when Emma's father flatly says to her, you shouldn't have done what they asked.

- Overall I really didn't understand why Emma was even part of the show. She is so dense, selfish and has little or no interest in the Millenium, it's baffling to me.

- Peter Watts I didn't understand. At end of 2nd season he was fully aware of who Millenium were. I realize he must have been turned again, but it was so vague. What happened? It's hard to believe it would take 23 episodes until Peter realized what was really going on again. Especially with his daughter knowing. Also I find Peter's wife also pathetic. She was not ignorant to what Peter was doing and who Millenium were, yet she stayed with him and kept her children in danger.

- I am among those who believe Peter sacrificed his life to save Frank and his daughter. Also believe Peter was unable to reconcile his part in Millenium's horrors and did not run away from his impending death.

Overall I'm saying, this last episode reflects the entire 3rd season.

- I preferred the 2nd season with the struggle of Owls and Rooster ideology. Whereas the 3rd, the group was seen as one entity, an entity of evil conspiracy who commit brutal murder after murder. The effort to force an apocalypse to me was convoluted and ultimately was lost in the muck of the 3rd season. 2nd season I felt was better and easier to follow with a more compelling struggle.

- But then I prefer more of the supernatural, legion story arcs than the odd episodes like Bardo Thordol...

Edited August 20, 2010 by Ziddy