Goodbye To All That/XF-Millennium

[ethsnafu]

Hi Ziddy,

I see this is your first post so allow me to welcome you to TIWWA and I hope you enjoy your time here and make new many new friends in the process.

I suppose the issue with Peter Watts is dealt with at the end of season. He moves beyond that point of being able to rationally engage with his actions and seems deep in the grip of the group's propaganda. Whilst I did disagree with some of the creative decisions taken during the third season and I certainly lamented how Watts was depicted during that season it does seem in keeping with what we know about cults and their members that it wasn't simply a case of opening his eyes to what was going on around him. His vision was firmly skewed by his growing obsession with The Millennium Group and his personal quest for wisdom and understanding.

As for which season ending I find the most satisfying? That's a difficult question. One seems to have prepared for an end that didn't come and one seemed to hope for a possible future that didn't happen either so both have flaws in terms of that alone but I have to go with the season two finale. It certainly ranks amongst some of the best TV I have ever watched and I never fail to be moved and threatened by those episodes.

Eth

[Guest Ziddy]

I wouldn't have minded if Millenium ended at Season two, it was purposeful and conclusive.

I know US TV is far different from Japanese Anime and making any comparisons is hard to do. But what I like about Japanese Anime is they are often only present in two season formats. There are 3 seasons in Japanese Anime, Fall, Winter and Spring. About 12 episodes each. Some shows are 12, 24, and others as many as 48. But if they are 48, the story arcs are clearly separated with each having their own conclusions.

That's what I like about Japanese Anime, the stories are complete. Beginning, Climax and Ending. Not all series are good, some are fluff. But the good ones have a story to tell, morality or human condition questioned, there is a series of questions and answers and a conclusion.

The problem for me with US TV is that TV is the opposite. There is no conclusion often. And if the conclusion does come, it's almost always non-sensicle, forced and terrible. US TV to me is presented with excellent Pilot, 1st few episodes that set the tone for the show and the premise. But then it just becomes a bunch of crap. The shows are almost always written to last as long as possible, and to me lack vision and intent. They just go on and on and on or until TV ratings are low enough where the show is forced to come up with an ending.

Personally I think US TV should be like Anime, it's a lot more work for writiers. But present shows in 24 episode series, with a start, climax and ending with a purpose and intent. Tell us something, provoke the viewers thoughts, encourage episode discussions. Make each episode count. And if the show is good, have a sequel. That's fine, a sequel with it's on intent and purposes. Can have 8 seasons, but each season different, not like 24, that's just one crap after another crap season which are all the same.

Example. Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 1 and 2.

- Both Anime shows are of the same cast and same elite Section 9: Public Security, anti-terrorist, cyber-terrorism force.

- Both anime had the same art style and overall direction. The emphasis is on humanity integrating with technology and where does the human soul, what makes us human?

- But both seasons are completely different. One season goes after a conspiracy to hide a cure a cyber-brain disease in order to boost profts for unsuccessful nano-tech. The 2nd season is about the creation of a hero/leader character to influence society and the importance that leaders have in society. A contrast of how leaders are so independent, and society itself is not. What makes us human is answered in both but in complete different ways, independent seasons. They are their own stories. Season 2 is not a continuation of season 1 like it is in US TV.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Ziddy

[Guest Black Francis]

I found season 3 for Millenium to be odd. The way 2nd season ended, it was obvious the writers did not see the showing being renewed.

- Which do you think is the more appropriate ending? 2nd or 3rd? I found 2nd season finale much more provoking than the 3rd. The sacrifice of the mother and man's mistake of true evil destroying all...

Season 3 I felt had a lot problems, especially due to Peter Watts and Emma. Emma supposedly so bright, I felt throughout the 3rd season to the contrary. And the last episode, Emma has to be one of the most dissapointing characters in television history. Trading Alzheimer to betray humanity? Pathetic. Really hits it home is when Emma's father flatly says to her, you shouldn't have done what they asked.

- Overall I really didn't understand why Emma was even part of the show. She is so dense, selfish and has little or no interest in the Millenium, it's baffling to me.

- Peter Watts I didn't understand. At end of 2nd season he was fully aware of who Millenium were. I realize he must have been turned again, but it was so vague. What happened? It's hard to believe it would take 23 episodes until Peter realized what was really going on again. Especially with his daughter knowing. Also I find Peter's wife also pathetic. She was not ignorant to what Peter was doing and who Millenium were, yet she stayed with him and kept her children in danger.

- I am among those who believe Peter sacrificed his life to save Frank and his daughter. Also believe Peter was unable to reconcile his part in Millenium's horrors and did not run away from his impending death.

Overall I'm saying, this last episode reflects the entire 3rd season.

- I preferred the 2nd season with the struggle of Owls and Rooster ideology. Whereas the 3rd, the group was seen as one entity, an entity of evil conspiracy who commit brutal murder after murder. The effort to force an apocalypse to me was convoluted and ultimately was lost in the muck of the 3rd season. 2nd season I felt was better and easier to follow with a more compelling struggle.

- But then I prefer more of the supernatural, legion story arcs than the odd episodes like Bardo Thordol...

I'm not a big fan of the third season either, I hated how the writers basically downplayed the ''apocalypse''. It would've been interesting to see Frank try to stop the group in a post-apocalyptic world and deal with the aftermath of the virus outbreak, in my opinion.

I liked Emma, I think the actress did a good job overall. I really liked the idea of Frank having a young naive protégé who ultimately betrays him at the end of the series. Problem is, they were a very odd pair and had very little chemistry. They should've brought back Lara Means, she and Frank had great chemistry and she was hands down a far more interesting character than Emma. And not to mention, her character was already well established.

[ethsnafu]

What interesting posts. I really enjoyed reading them.

I am sure that those who create long running shows on commercial television would love the luxury of being able to fully control their product and deliver the kind of television that ziddy describes is popular in anime serials. Sadly television is big business. To make a show like Millennium or The X-Files, 20th Century Fox were required to invest considerable amounts of money in the project and with that investment comes the right to interfere. If they see a cash-cow they will milk it and if the cow is struggling they will cull it. The dollar speaks the loudest in shows like these. Millennium and The X-Files did suffer from network interference. There's no doubt about it. What those shows would have looked like if those involved had had the opportunity to present a pure and clear vision to the audience who knows.

I have never sat down to watch anime if I'm honest. It has always intrigued me but there is so much of it about I never know where to start but you have intrigued me.

Eth