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even tho real people change, we want our movie charactors to pretty much stay the same. this is even more true if we liked them as we first met them [good stay good and evil stay evil]. I didn't think Indy 4 worked on any level so messing with the establish charactors just put more nails in the coffin.

you can pick your friends... you can pick your nose .... but you can NEVER pick your friend's nose !!

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT!

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Guest CrowMagnumMan

Not derogratory in any way, they just worked hard at not being my friends. The irony was, that when the :censored: hit the fan, I would have been on their side otherwise. But this was all a long time ago, in another BBS.

Always nice to have another Indyfan.

Ah. Good to know.

Agreed. Always good to bump into another Indyfan. :) The 4th film has been pretty divisive among the fan base, which is unfortunate. I was hoping it would be something that's unanimously liked. It's been hard, but I try to maintain a level of respect for the other camp and focus on what created the fanbase in the first place.

Now this might be controversial but I'm firmly of the opinion that they should not have brought Marion back and certainly not have married them at the end of the film. I know it was a fan-pleaser and the character is, admittedly, great but they just didn't do her justice in 'Skull' and was lacking some of the edge she had in the first film. Bringing back beloved characters in that way is always tricky and not always successful and I think was a example of the latter to be frank. I wonder what you guys think?

Eth

Oh, I completely agree. Despite the prairie dogs, the nuclear fridge, etc., the movie was actually halfway decent up until around the halfway mark. But the movie started to spiral downward pretty fast right around the time Marion showed up. I'm not blaming her completely. There were a million reasons for it. But on top of some bad writing, it felt like Karen Allen forgot how to act. That's just my opinion, of course.

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Guest WaveCrest

I'm really curious, what's a NIM? I'm guessing it's a term from the lexicon of Indiana Jones Fandom right?

Eth

I'd like to know what a NIM is as well.

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I guess it's the 'Abba' syndrome. They have resisted calls for years to reform as they know their best days are behind them and any return to active duty would be a shadow of what they once were so it's better to leave fans with the memories of when they were great. I guess that's what I feel about Marion. I wouldn't have minded had there been a good reason for her in the narrative but all too often it feels like she is tagging along for the ride just to please the fans.

Now Cate Blanchett is a superb actress, I don't think any of us would disagree with that. Then why did she leave me so cold as Irina Spalko. She certainly wasn't in the league of other villains Indy has faced (think Mola Ram and then think Spalko and you get my drift) and her accent was all over the place. I've just realised I am being very grouchy about the film. :whistling:

Oh and one more thing, the ants scene. Puh-lease. :rolleyes:

Eth

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Guest Charger

Now Cate Blanchett is a superb actress, I don't think any of us would disagree with that.

Oh I would...seriously...I hate that b.... No...hate is a mild word...Loathe...detest...something along those lines.

She might be technically a good actor, but there is just something about her that makes my blood boil...and she has ruined so so so many movies for me...I don't even want to see the new Robin Hood because of her...I just can't stand her face at all.

Okay...wow...glad I got that off of my chest! :down::wacko:

I have to say I'm bit surprised about the feedback of Indy 4....I enjoyed it...granted, not as much as the earlier ones but it was still very entertaining movie.

Then about the ladies...well Karen Allen is the only one worth mentioning...Capshaw was good but rather annoying at times.

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Guest Mikal C Johnson  KtCym ECA

Okay, basically, there was this forum back in the 90s at Indyfan.com that was, of course, devoted to Indiana Jones. It was the first internet forum I'd ever been involved in (prior I'd only ever visited BBS forums on dial up). Not sure when I started going there, but I'd been on it for years under different nyms when this guy who called himself Aragorn started trying to shake things up a bit by occassionally posting little bits of humor. He typically included the acronym NIM in his topics, just to let people know it had "No Important Message." It was a courtesy on his part, as he didn't want to annoy people by having them open a message only to find it was nonsens.

But certain people on the board took umbrage with it, saying that if it wasn't about Indiana Jones or at least vaguely related to similar things, it didn't belong on IndyFan.

Some immature little punks on the board then started posting NIMs as an act of "rebellion" against the guy Micah who owned the domain. They started calling themselves The Great NIM Rebellion.

Personally, I didn't care one way or the other and tried to stay out of it. I had started a board of my own devoted to Chivalric topics. Of course, that included a lot of religious talk, as religion a fundamental part of Chivalry.

Somehow, on Indyfan, the NIM fight had become this weird political thing. The more conservative types who wanted the board to be all about the movies and related topics tended to be... well... more conservative. The NIM guys were more liberal. I tried not to read any of the stuff related to their debate, as I didn't care, so I had no idea it had become this big gay rights and anti-war debate.

The Great NIM Rebellion had started their own board where, as it turns out, they staged attacks on boards they felt didn't deserve to be online. I had mentioned my board on Indyfan in a Last Crusade discussion because we had our own Grail topic going. About the same time I had a disagreement about something with one of the NIM guys, but I didn't think much of it, as it was some silly, unimportant topic.

Somewhere, during all of this, 9/11 happened. The fighting on Indyfan went crazy, now including whether America deserved to be attacked, if we should retaliate, if all Muslims were evil... it was some of the most asinine arguing I'd ever seen.

Next thing I knew, my board was deluged with pornographic posts. Seriously, we had over 300 posts in one day that were all the exact same content. It scared off several people who were just starting to visit there and, after a couple weeks, I ended up closing the board down. Many of the posts were under the name Micah (who I did not believe would do any such thing), so I knew the source was someone at the Indyfan board.

That drew me into the whole thing. I didn't care about the stuff they were fighting over on Indyfan, and up to that time I had thought that the occassional NIM was no big deal.

Pissed off, I went to their board and left a total of four posts, three of which were under the names of their members who I knew (from IP addresses) had been involved in the spamming of my board. I made myself very obvious, wanting it to be clear that I knew who had done it.

They then accused me of spamming them (4 posts as opposed to 300) and started getting very abusive and harassing on a few boards I was visiting.

I spent an hour going over posts on their board (which was hosted on one of those free board services there used to be lots of). I found a huge number of posts that violated their terms of use, many of which were by the board admins, and reported them to the host company. They got shut down.

Over the next year I followed them around online, proving my point. They would start a new board, start posting things that violated the host terms, and I'd get them shut down.

A couple other guys they'd done some stuff to on Indyfan were, apparently, exacting a more lasting form of revenge. A guy from NIM ended up getting fired from his job because this one fellow found out who he was, where he was, and that he was posting some of this stuff from his work terminal. He reported the poor guy to his boss. To me, that was too far and I drew back. It was getting boring anyway.

So... there it is. Not all of the NIM guys were bad. I actually got along pretty well with a couple of them. I had no problem with the off-topic posts, still don't.

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Guest CrowMagnumMan

That sounds pretty intense. I was never a member of that forum. I joined COW (Club Obi Wan), the IndyGear forum, and stuck with that for years. I don't go there anymore, though. There was another forum, The Fedora Chronicles (that was only partially Indy-related), that I was with until more recently. I'm still an admin there I think, but I hardly ever go there. It's a great forum with some really great people.

The Raven seems to be the biggest Indy forum right now. I check it occasionally.

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What a detailed, and fascinating, insight into fandom. I guess all fandoms have their crisis periods, cliques, coups and factions and so on. I always had a theory that Glen Morgan, who is known for reflecting on his state of mind in his scripts, was addressing the various cliques in Ten Thirteen fandom when he wrote 'Owls' and 'Roosters' and in particular the point at which The Old Man says 'damn Owls and Roosters, they don't even know what they are fighting about any more' which I think is a pretty good resume of how tribal some fan factions end up to be honest. I thank you for your honesty and for such a detailed account.

I was interested to read about the lack of love for Cate. I have to say the movies I have seen in her have been great but if criticism is to drawn she isn't a very giving actor in terms of emotional resonance. She is quite cold in her relationship with the audience which should have made her memorable choice for Irina but the accent was so poor that threw me more than the performance. The psychic thing was badly handled as well.

I ws reading a little about Irina to see what the critical response was and it wasn't great but I found the following both amusing and interesting and thought I would share whilst I was here. It makes some astute observations especially on the subject of the apparent lack of weight of the Skulls which are handled on screen as though they are as light as feather despite the fact they would have weighed a ton in reality.

Eth

Irina Spalko is the KGB's leading psychic operative, and commands a small, extremely well equipped army which she can seemingly transport anywhere on the globe without fear of recriminations by the local militia.

Her psychic powers are right up there with the likes of modern day superhumans such as Silvia Browne, Uri Geller, Mystic Meg and the like. In other words, she can't actually do anything practical whatsoever, although she does have rather piercing eyes.

Despite this utter absence of talent, she dreams of nothing short of world domination through the power of her mind alone, and the Crystal Skull artifact that she chases for the entire film is the key to how she believes she can achieve it.

And chase it she does, in endless action scene afer action scene. If anyone plays a drinking game where they have to down a shot each time this damn skull either changes hands or is dropped then they should have a stomach pump on standby. I'd even go as far as to say that the head gets passed around more than C3PO's noggin in the inferior Star Wars trilogy.

The Crystal Skull (which incidentally has all the heft of a hollow piece of polystyrene) is of alien origin, and the legend that forms the contrived and ill-considered plot states that it was stolen from a Mayan temple, and if returned it will grant you great power.

Prior to getting to this temple, and amidst the two hour chase, we get to see the many facets of Irina's villainous personality. These are as follows:

- She has a penchant for rapiers (which given Indy's new sidekick studied fencing means she is guaranteed at least one swordfight)

- a severe yet sexy-in-a-dominatrix-like way haircut

- a Russian accent thicker than George Lucas' merchandising portfolio.

She is also not even slightly scary, which is a shame as she is the only real baddie in the film.

Despite capturing Indy repeatedly, he escapes with ease every time and eludes her for long enough to get to the hidden temple with the skull. This isn't really a problem for her though, as Indy is travelling with Mac, who is working with her and sneakily dropping tracking beacons along the way.

So, at the critical point when the skull is about to be put back, Irina appears, pistol in hand, to steal the moment of glory for herself.

The temple they are in has thirteen crystal alien skeletons, all with skulls apart from one. It doesn't take a genius therefore to deduce that she needs to pop the skull she has onto the spare neck. Once she does this, the CGI skeleton starts animating and speaks through the voice of mad professor "Ox" (John Hurt). The language is Mayan, so Indy helpfully translates that basically, the thirteen quartz bone-people are terribly grateful at the return of their missing head, and they'd love to give a reward. Indy wisely steps well away at this point, and lets Irina make the foolish request of "I want to know everything!". This triggers an abundance of special effects, with all of the crystal beings morphing into one that looks like a malicious cross betwixt E.T. and the aliens from Close Encounters (there is a lot of self-referential masturbation in this film from the two gazillionaires that made it).

Everyone else cowers back, but like a simpleton, Irina just waits for infinite knowledge to flow into her, fill up her being and then overflow out of her eyeballs, before she explodes in a cloud of psychic dust (much the same as normal dust, but it can guess that you are attracted to or will be attracted to a man or woman whose first name begins with a really common letter)

Later on, the point is belaboured to the point of farce, when Indy declaims something like "The Mayan for 'treasure' wasn't gold, it was knowledge. Knowledge... was... their... treasure..." (he says this as if he were Gandalf solving a particularly difficult Dwarvish riddle).

If at this point you are thinking "What the hell are aliens doing in an Indiana Jones movie?" then I completely sympathise. Things are going to get even sillier soon though...

Source: https://www.moviedeaths.com/indiana_jones_and_the_kingdom_of_the_crystal_skull/irina_spalko/

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