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The Old Man - was he a bad guy?


Guest Bad Boy Dazza

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Guest Bad Boy Dazza

I feel that the show was originally depicting The Old Man as a very special very high servant of goodness.

But then they decided to make the Millenium group the bad guys.

So what did this say about The Old Man? I mean he was their leader!

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What a good question Bad Boy Dazza. To me the only way this can be answered is to post The Old Man's profile. Hope this answers your question.

Here's the Link

The Old Man's Millennium Character Profile

The leader of The Millennium Group, he was responsible for educating Candidates on the nature of Evil. Among them was Frank Black who visited Bucksnort on the request of Peter Watts (Beware of the Dog).

The Old Man travelled to Seattle and, through his death, reunited The Millennium Group, which had begun disintegration through the influence of Odessa. When questioned by Lara Means on what faction he believed (Owls or Roosters), he replied that he had already "seen the end of the world" when Rudolph Axmann had his parents gassed at Auschwitz (Owls, Roosters).

It's revealed that The Old Man approached Peter Watts with an offer to join The Millennium Group. Watts, going through an especially difficult period, saw comfort in The Group, and agreed (The Time Is Now).

DarleneSignaturePic1.jpg

"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I always took the evil turn of the Millennium Group to be the result of The Old Man's replacement (don't recall his name at the moment) who acted in much more morally ambiguous ways than the The Old Man. The underlying knowledge could be used for good or ill, it depended on the leader. For example, the difference between Gandalf and Saruman in LotR. Both were powerful wizards, both would serve as the head of their order, but each took very different paths.

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  • Elders (Admins)

I definitely think he was a 'good guy' not a 'bad guy'. He was well thought of by Lara Means, Peter and Frank and his role was as a spiritual leader for members of the Group. Visiting The Old Man could be considered a test to see if you were evil or good. The group infiltration by 'legion' is I think considered to be the main justification for The Millennium Group being seen as an evil entity or anti-Millennium Group in Season 3, not specifically the specific Elder who was promoted to Old Man following the death of the previous Old Man during Season 2. The Older/Replacement Old Man didn't make an appearence in S3 as far as I can remember.

https://millennium-thisiswhoweare.net/guide/character_profile.php?name=Group%20Elder%20%28I%29

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The group was not only infiltrated by Legion, but there was a lot of outside influence. There was The Family, The Trust, and Odessa. Then there's the fact that the group itself had two different factions, Owls and Roosters. Almost everyone was very vulnerable to me with all the pulls from so many directions, and I can see why the group needed an Old Man to educate and oversee and even protect. Remember, The Old Man is responsible for reuniting the group through his death.

I don't remember the replacement Old Man making an appearance in season three either, and I personally feel that was a big mistake as well. The Old Man is a very important part of the group and he was totally ignored in the last season. Big mistake.

DarleneSignaturePic1.jpg

"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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  • Elders (Admins)

Actually thinking about it Darlene, did Peter meet with an Elder to discuss Frank coming back to the group in S3? He may not have been the same Elder/New Old Man though perhaps that's where I'm getting confused. I'm sure I recall that scene but its been a while since I saw the show. Time for a complete rerun!

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Guest Bad Boy Dazza

Hmm but how do you explain all the evil stuff the group was doing in war zones and murdering people etc during his reign as the guru? I find it a bit of a stretch to believe he was ignorant of the goings on. Is it fair to say the script writing really just didn't really deal with this contradiction?

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I think The Old Man was beyond the day to day running of the Millennium Group. You have to remember as Earthnut stated above, there was a civil war in the Group itself, plus the interference of outside groups and the insidious grasp of Legion. The Old Man didn't prevent the killing of people by the Dogs, either. In an odd sense, he was above good and evil and believed in balance.

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I think The Old Man was beyond the day to day running of the Millennium Group. You have to remember as Earthnut stated above, there was a civil war in the Group itself, plus the interference of outside groups and the insidious grasp of Legion. The Old Man didn't prevent the killing of people by the Dogs, either. In an odd sense, he was above good and evil and believed in balance.

Awesome reply Bill, yes, The Old Man was balanced. Excellent ! ! ! :notworthy:

DarleneSignaturePic1.jpg

"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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