O.K. We all need a good dose of Millennium.

[Libby]

Darn it! I'd got distracted by other things, so I'd forgotten to set up a separate topic for the "comedy" episodes (even though I had drafted an initial post). I have now done that. But I wanted to copy/move a couple of relevant posts to that new topic, and couldn't do it. It seems every time the board software gets a makeover, I get a new "learning experience".

Perhaps, seesthru and Frank Black Jr, you could copy your posts here and post them over there. Even if you don't want to continue with the conversation, it would be helpful for others to read your views. There are still people who discover MM and then discover TIWWA.

[seesthru]

 I already stated my thoughts there, and they are pretty much  like I copied and pasted them from here. LOL! Love the  nonsense episodes.

I've been allowing my HUH?  thoughts to come to the surface watching the series over and over this past week.  It's on a loop on my   roku. Out of order episodes form online, some were even dubbed in German!   ( don't speak it, but it was neat to see). Like : why did no one remember Jordan's dream and stop that trip to the cabin?  Why didn't' Frank simply join the other group when he left millennium after Catherine died? Yo know, the one his friend invited him in to?   He'd have been better looked after than with the FBI, would have had more leeway into investigating the Millennium group than he would get with the FBI.  Why didn't Laura stop her activities with the group? She knew they were taking her sanity, that exposing herself to the visions by working with the group was  harming her.. but she did it anyway and hoped for the best?

Yep.  This show  is very realistic in that all the humans involved just didn't do what they knew was best for them.  Frank Should have left the group. Catherine never should have let him leave the family home, even though they both thought it was necessary.   Lara should have left the group, not become initiated.  The group should have guarded her sanity better. The group should have protected the only thing keeping  Frank with them. (Catherine).

 

It's good to watch the show.  Different perspective each time.  First I didn't like Catherine. Then I understood her viewpoint and Frank started looking a bit selfish. First I thought Lara just suddenly went bonkers after initiation, now I see it was coming on  from the start of her working with the group.   So much I missed the first  few times watching... seeing more clearly now.  Old age brings wisdom perhaps?

 

 

[Frank Black Jr]

I think this kind of show has always things that make U said: "huh? Why?", specially when you have a lot of people writing episodes and the head of the show (Chris Carter) is absent. Sometimes great stuff came up, sometimes...you know haha.
(recently I found somewhere a site that actually had a lot of episodes dubbed in Russian).

I think Frank needed help with his gift because he knew that if he couldn't control it, he would go insane (like he did in the past) and  then, would lose his family for good. That´s why he seeked the MG. Catherine was the only one that knew that something was wrong with them (maybe Jordan too). And the MG knew that they needed a weak Frank  so he would join them. That`s why Catherine was killed. Frank was stronger with her on his side. In that case, he wouldn't do some of the things that the MG would ask him to do. If he was weaker (without Catherine), it would be easier to break him. And they did it for a while. When Frank got suspicious with the MG, all hell broke lose and he ended up losing everything. He was alone fighting to recover Jordan costedy.

I think Lara needed the MG because she knew she couldn´t resist any longer the overwhelming power of her gift. If U think about it, she has nothing to lose. She was kind of doom anyway.

10 hours ago, seesthru said:

Old age brings wisdom perhaps?

I guess we change with time...that is why maybe you focus on different things every time you watch it. I think that proves that the show is a good piece of art...you know...something that makes you think or feel different things every time you see it.

[SmokeyPSD]

Yeah I enjoy season 2 on it's own terms but I never agreed with the decision to make Millennium a corrupt group. A farcry away from the Academy which inspired it. This is Lances feelings also which he really was not in sink with what creatively happened.

I felt the powerful way evil was explored and the supernatural was completely lost too. From subtle to well, the opposite with the dialog of evil, replaced with a more typical, comfortable version that we usually see.

I still enjoy it but season 1 for me is what Millennium is. You also didn't have the confused attempts at humor. I don't hold it against glen morgan and james wong though. They made the season their own. It's still some of the best TV out there and they're also responsible for the best period in x files too.

[Frank Black Jr]

I totally understand you Smoke Psd and Lance too about being annoyed when they changed the idea of the show. Anyway, I enjoyed most episodes of the 2 season -except for the funny episodes- because I found very interesting all the mystique part of the show and also the idea of a group of people gathering power to control the world along the years. Still today that is something that happens, and therefore we all suffer (you can see it easy with media control).

I didn't enjoy it that much when it turned too graphic, like the virgin appearance or some episodes of Lucy B (though, she was always great with Lance. There was something there between them). For me that wasn't scary at all. Maybe the idea of evil works better when you know is there somewhere but it doesn't have a form so your fear enters to the equation to trick your mind and then things starts to happen.

I agree that if there wasn't for that shift, the show would turn into "the killer of the week" and got boring after 1 season, like CSI did. Also, maybe they tried to achieve so much things...relationships, the apocalypse, conspiracies, human mind, evil etc...in so little time that sometimes things got right and others got out of hands, like the 3 season. I think it has great episodes and others not so good. But for me, the interesting ones were when the MG and Watts were involved. If that happened, you would have a great story and Lance acting more accurate.

[Earthnut]

On 12/30/2015 at 2:47 PM, Frank Black Jr said:

Maybe the idea of evil works better when you know is there somewhere but it doesn't have a form so your fear enters to the equation to trick your mind and then things starts to happen.

There's a saying that it isn't the ghost, or the evil that kills someone, it's the fear of it.  So true.  The spiritual realm and the physical realm can touch, but only through the spirit, and why it's so important for us to strengthen ours, and to become more receptive to the Holy Spirit's (The Great Spirit) guidance.  Native American Indians totally understood.

[Frank Black Jr]

The only thing that doesn't fit is the position of the body. Because first I thought: they were eating...Peter heard something, got near the window to see and bang, the family got scared and then they MG killed the rest...but the position of the body wouldn't be like that. It's clear that something unexpected happened if we see the table mess.

One that could work is: they were eating and someone entered Peter's office. He heard him, got up entered and struggled with the guy and ended up killing him. He came back, gathered his family and run. And then, gave Frank the briefcase. That is the key for me to justify the theory that Watts is alive. The briefcase. What? Are you telling me that after giving Frank the briefcase as a warning to escape, he thought: I'm tired...I'm going home to have a soup...".

Come on! Even before giving Frank the warning - if he confirmed that the Mg were after them- Watts surely bought airplane tickets to Figgi to get the hell of out Seattle.

 

 

[Gotham Gal]

Looking again, it's clearly midday, eating a family lunch (even back then, I don't know how many families actually ate lunch together let alone at a dining room table -- especially weekdays which presumably this was as Frank picked up Jordan at school we think very shortly thereafter, yet Peter's daughters apparently weren't at school.)  Soup, sandwiches, and milk only partly consumed, so they were interrupted by something.  The flower vase is the only thing amiss in the dining room though, which may be simply an accident.  We've never seen the house other than clean and orderly. The fracas seemingly occurred only in the office, not the dining room.  The interruption was discovered in the dining room, however.

 

The angle of the dining room chair suggests whoever was sitting there got up and went out the door (to outside) rather than into Peter's office; otherwise, it would be angled in the opposite direction, wouldn't it?   Presumably it  would be Peter or Barbara, as they would've been at the heads of the table. They all apparently weren't too put out to put their (cloth!) napkins back on the table rather than just let them fall on the floor. They were interrupted, yet they were kind of neat about it.

 

Also interesting is the door swing. Ordinarily one wouldn't have a door ajar like that although if it were opened fully, it would seemingly hit the credenza.  That would tend to suggest to me its usual position was closed and someone came out in a hurry not bothering to close it.  Otherwise, it's a very awkward layout.  Who knows?

 

I hadn't noticed all these details on DVD, though admittedly it's been a while.

 

The position of the body had perplexed me, too.

 

I don't think Peter was totally caught unawares--he had mapped out a plan. I just think he was prepared, which would support the proposition that it wasn't his body laying there.  Also if he had gotten up from the table to investigate, then was shot, he would've probably been laying with his head, not his feet, in that direction--if that were actually his body. I just don't think so, and didn't back when it aired, either.  I don't think it was just wishful thinking on my part. The evidence was meant to obfuscate and I'm quite certain we weren't supposed to know, as this was a cliffhanger episode that unfortunately also became the series finale.

 

Further thoughts?

[Frank Black Jr]

Tv shows have always shown close ups when something happened to an important character of a show. For example (spoiler alert TWD) the most near that comes to my mind is Glen´s death. They show him yes, but not in a clear way...like they did with the poor Noah or the rest that have died. So for me, it was clear that he wasn't dead. The same here. If they didn't show it is because they might not be sure if it was a good idea to have him killed specially keeping in mind that they were ending the season. The same with Lara. We know she got mental but that was it. So, if someone had an idea for her, they could bring her back and add a backup story. Peter the same. If Fox wanted now a new season and the new writer wants Terry, they could bring him back with an explanation.

Aaanywayyyy...I took a few snaps from the last episode. When Frank went to Peter´s home to kill him because of Jordan´s video, I got to say that Peter´s clothes looked too much alike of the dead guy had in the last scene. Today, if I had to vote, I think I will change my vote for dead. The trousers and the shoes look the same. Too bad...

[Gotham Gal]

Although many men often wear dark trousers and we don't see the shirt. The shoes? Hard to tell. We'll probably never know.