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Are Women Not Allowed to be an "Old Man" in the Group?


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Have you ever wondered why the group has never mentioned anything about a woman becoming "The Old Man," which would make her, "The Old Woman?"  A title I sign often in PMs to point this out.  To the best of my memory, it has never been discussed in any of the episodes.  I have copied and pasted below, all the information about the group from the main site, and look forward to everyone's input.

http://millennium-thisiswhoweare.net/guide/the_millennium_group.php

Here's my thing ~ The group goes back all the way to 10 AD, and since then, men have always been dominate, up until the women's rights movement.  In modern times, women are no longer subservient and I see no reason why a woman couldn't hold the spiritual leader position.  Many people believe that by their nature, woman are more spiritual then men anyway, whereas men are more literal/worldly.

What's your thing?

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THE MILLENNIUM GROUP
For Millennium, series creator Chris Carter based the Millennium Group on the real life Academy Group. The Millennium Group is a fictional dedicated private investigating consultancy. The Millennium Group consists of a diverse mixture of personnel, drawn from 'elite' hand-picked ex-law enforcement personnel. Season Two's writers re-defined the Group as dating back to ancient times, a mystical cult which grew out of a millenniallist Christian sect.

The Millennium Group has strong ties to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), bolstered by its modern re-birth at the hands of J. Edgar Hoover (a member of the original Millennium Group), Clyde Tolson and their assistant Lily Unser.

OVERVIEW
In common with many authority figures in conspiracy fiction, the group are claimed to be in possession of substantial secret knowledge - hoarding it until such a time as they think it would be opportune to disclose to the public. Through the years they have been a group of determined and (at times) desperate people trying to find clues in the "events" of our history, looking for moments when the human and the inhuman have crossed paths, studying whatever possible clues they can find, and attempting to piece together the future. They are trying to find the appropriate branch of the future to take, the branch which will shift the control from these inhuman elements and into their hands. These objectives have forced them to ignore conventional ethics governing individuals in exchange for the responsibility of ensuring the survival of mankind. Some junior members of the organization are unaware of this agenda, having not yet been initiated into full membership.

The Group is led by the Elder with the Old Man acting as a type of spiritual leader. The symbol for the Millennium Group is the ouroboros, a snake biting its own tail. Time, life continuity, the endless cycle of life, completion, the repetition of history, the self-sufficiency of nature and the rebirth of the earth can all be seen within the circular boundaries of the ouroboros. The Group chose it as their symbol out of respect for the beginning and the end of all.

The theme of large, quasi-governmental organisations with storehouses of dreadful secrets, staff being unknowningly used to further an agenda and an interest in controlling the path mankind will take into a threatening future is also an echo of Millennium creator Chris Carter's earlier work on The X-Files.

BACKGROUND
The Millennium Group was formed around 10 AD by a group of Christians avoiding persecution. They formed the Group to defend to world against the forces of Satan and other evils as the years draw closer to the Millennium...and beyond. However, Group members began to turn on each other when the Hand of Saint Sebastian was discovered in the year 998 AD. It was believed that whoever had possession of the Hand would have the power to destroy the Devil and win the battle of good vs. evil at the end of the Millennium. A lot of Group members wanted that Hand. Some were willing to betray each other for it. Despite the fact that this infighting had eventually been resolved, this theme of conflicting views and beliefs would come back centuries later to haunt the Millennium Group. Now, in modern times, the Group has manifested itself as a private law enforcement consulting firm as a way to fight off evil.

In the 1940s, with the world on the verge of nuclear Armageddon, the two top officers of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, and Clyde Tolson, decided that there needed to be an independent group that could go above the law. A group that could do what the government and law enforcement couldn't.

Hoover, who was already a member of the original Millennium Group, Tolson, and their assistant Lily Unser decided to create their Group. Hoover adopted the ouroboros insignia of the Millennium Group, claiming that he discovered the symbol from a scientist named Kekule. However, he was really creating his own version of the Millennium Group.

Hoover and Tolson began to recruit members for their Group straight from the FBI. Eventually, however, Hoover's Millennium Group merged with the descendants of the Original Millennium Group to form a larger, more diverse Group mixed with ex-law enforcement personnel and scientists.

Now, in modern times, the Millennium Group appears at first glance to be a group of ex-law enforcement agents (mostly ex-FBI) who consult police departments and other law enforcement agencies. However, this is only a fraction of what the Group does. In reality, the Group comprises many different experts in the law enforcement, legal, technology, medical, and scientific fields.

FACTIONS
The Millennium Group comprises a number of extremely intelligent individuals who want to save the world. However, not all of these members share the same beliefs. Throughout history, the Millennium Group has had access to scientific breakthroughs, that were banned, or withheld, by those in power at the time. Nicolaus Copernicus (the first European astronomer to formulate a modern heliocentric model of the solar system). Galileo Galilei (whose championing of Copernicanism, particularly the heliocentric model of the universe, was controversial within his lifetime. The geocentric view had been dominant since the time of Aristotle, and the controversy engendered by Galileo's opposition to this view resulted in the condemnation of heliocentrism in 1616 by the Catholic Church as contrary to Scripture. Galileo was eventually forced to recant his heliocentrism and spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Inquisition.) This enabled the Group to leap generations ahead of mainstream research. It has also divided the Group into two factions: the Roosters, or the Theologians and the Owls, or the Seculists. Both factions share the same basic belief - that the world is coming to an end - but each has its own views regarding the source of this apocalypse.

During Millennium's second season episodes Owls and Roosters, the Millennium Group is almost divided amongst these two factions.

The Owls have a secular view concerning the end of the world. The Owls' belief is based on this leading-edge scientific research unavailable to the general populace. They claim that six billion years ago, before the formation of the Earth, two neutron stars collided six billion light years away. That collision released cosmic rays, particles of such extreme energy, that a collision of these particles could transform the vacuum of space and create a tear in the fabric of our universe. The Owls claim to have proof, that such a tear, an expanding cosmic bubble, will eventually reach our solar system. And a new universe, it's properties calculated anywhere from apocalyptic to inconsequential will be created. They believe this apocalypse can only be avoided through the use of applied science. The Owls are the smaller and less influential of the factions. They are anxious that the Roosters' faith in the Bible will lead the Group astray.

The Roosters are the dominant faction. The majority of the Millennium Group's members, they follow the Group's original teachings. They see Armageddon in specifically religious terms. That is, they believe that the world is facing the eschaton foretold in the Book of Revelation, threats and disaster of biblical prediction and proportion. They believe that this end will come from something beyond the understanding of man. No one really knows what this threat is, but it will likely be directly related to the influence of Satan and the wrath of God. In this understanding the Millennium Group's role is to offer guidance for a struggling humanity.

The rooster is probably used as a symbol because of its association with the dawn. In Christian symbolism the rooster is also often used to signify the resurrection of Christ. A rooster's crowing to herald the sunrise is also sometimes likened to a preacher or prophet crying out to awaken people to the light of God.

The owl is traditionally the totem of the goddess Athena, and is often used as a symbol for philosophy. Athena was goddess of wisdom and patroness of philosophers. It is an apt symbol, at all night discussion sessions have long been a part of philosophic discourse.

The imagery of owl and rooster is interestime because these birds are emblematic of different periods of the day. The owl is nocturnal, and the rooster diurnal.

In recent times, a small Representative Board has been formed where Owls and Roosters can both sit and appeal their ideas to the Elder.

 

THE STRUCTURE OF THE MILLENNIUM GROUP

The infrastructure of the Millennium Group is based upon the following tiers:

The Old Man ~
In the Group, one wise man is chosen to be the spiritual leader. This chosen one is dubbed the "Old Man" (usually because it is an old man who is chosen). The Old Man has a number of tasks which include (but not limited to) initiating candidates, providing moral guidance, making predictions, and providing any high priority consultation. The Old Man commands the utmost respect in all Group members, and his say is prime over all others.

The Elder ~
The Elder is essentially the leader of the Group. The Elder makes decisions, approves the acceptance of Group candidates, gives orders, and is the head of the Representative Board. All Group actions must have the Elder's approval. The Elder may consult the Old Man at his discretion.

The Inquisitor ~
The Inquisitor is the judge of a candidate's merit. He is the chairman of a review board that reviews the candidate's progress and achievements.

Patrons ~
Patrons are special Group members who are assigned to recruit consultants to the Group, then guide and educate them in the ways of the Group when the consultant is accepted as a Candidate. Some Group members will spend many years as a patron.

Consultants and Candidates ~
After being introduced to the Group by a Patron, one can begin to work for the Group as a consultant. Consultants have limited access to the Group's resources and know nothing of the Group's origin, although they are led to believe that they have full access and knowledge. After an unspecified period of time, and once the consultant has unknowingly proved himself "worthy," the consultant will then become a candidate for membership into the Group. At this phase, the candidate's Patron will gradually and carefully reveal the Group's origin and wider purpose. Candidates will be given a higher access to the Group's resources. A Candidate will be sent to meet the Old Man. Then, he/she will go through unspecified "tests" at determining what "evil" is as well as election sessions in which a small handful of Group members will interview the Candidate and assess his or her candidacy and loyalty to the Group. If the Candidate passes the elections and the tests and has the Old Man's approval, the Candidate will now be accepted as a full member and all the Group's resources and secrets will become available.

The Millennium Group consists of many employees providing varying services, for instance security and assassination specialists (such as Mr Blaylock and Mr Mabius), others include as an example criminal profilers, crime scene examiners, drivers, forensic scientists, biological medical staff, researchers, snipers and assault team members.

The Interest In Evil ~
The Group struggles to understand evil, in both biblical and scientific contexts. Biblically, they research cases where a supernatural evil is assumed present to understand true evil. Scientifically, they promote the study of the minds of serial killers, even going so far as to recreate some. The Group continues to fund research into bio-genetic science that may someday allow a life form to be physically separated into "good" and "evil" entities.

 

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"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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Not much attention has never been given to the  "old man position beyond  RL Armstrong's  character. That said, since  the society that the  group  existed in was male-centric, it stood to reason that

even in today's society groups like the Freemasons, Knights Templar  and the Order of Skull and Bones women are not allowed .  even most religions , women play only a minor role . we live [ still] in

Some people would freak out, others would be in a state of shock and unable to move, and since Catherine is such a quiet and internal person, I put her in the last category.  Me, I'd probably ask him/

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Not much attention has never been given to the  "old man position beyond  RL Armstrong's  character. That said, since  the society that the  group  existed in was male-centric, it stood to reason that males  had highest positions.  The Academy group, the real life  model for the MIllennium group, is male-centric as well. On their website they have zero female practitioners and 2 female associates.  The FBI  hasn't always welcomed women into it's ranks. Law enforcement didn't always accept women.

I found it heartening that when Frank was being grilled by the group, that there were women in the committee. There were women higher up than Cheryl Andrews and Lara Means so to speak.   I think they probably never had a female old man, might not have considered it.  Or, female  higher ups and elders might have been more recent, so one hasn't "lived long enough"  to be the old man.

Also, to become the old man ( or old woman)  and move to the unabomber shack outside of Bucksnort,  it seems that it's a life where you have to leave behind your old life.   I think one consideration  for old man or old woman is that there be no family members left behind.  You certainly can't move them into the shack.  Too many things there only  a few should see. Peter Watts never would  have been old man.  I think he liked his family and his creature comforts. He was always tan, and his home was decked out.

Old women?  Lara Means seemed to have no family or was completely estranged from them.  She didn't seem to have a social life. Had she not gone crackers she might have eventually been the old man. Emma Hollis.  Once her dad passed, she'd be alone.  No social life.  Another candidate for future old man.

I think though Lara or Frank Black.  They were who the old man went to when the group went nuts. One of them should grow into the role. Again Lara is crackers. Was.   Frank is anti group. Emma is an unwilling participant in the group.

Maybe Artis?  The shot haired  person Frank worked with on the priests being burned case.

Anyway, yeah I think the show itself was a little male centric  when it came to the  group.  It allowed women in, but the formula was more like the FBI.  Clean cut  suited males, until you're the old man, then toss the suit and get in that shack! LOL

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"I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen"

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Yes Finlay was a Patron or Elder in my book, certainly a higher ranking Group Member. I don't there's any reason to believe they couldn't have a female leader at some point, especially in these days of long overdue equality. Frank himself expressed how much you can come to view a woman's insights as a detective and consultant. Good point about giving up family and creature comforts though to live in the cabin.

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Yeah, in "Beware of the dog"  I thought maybe the old man was a bit quirky.  But when they buried the old man on the property,  and the other guy donned the jeans and flannel and took his place in the cabin as the new old man,  It was clear, that the place was significant. It  was clear that there is significance to the group in the old man living in the cabin, in the boonies, making sure the  bucksnort balance is kept, among other things. ;)   

"I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen"

W. H. Auden
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even in today's society groups like the Freemasons, Knights Templar  and the Order of Skull and Bones women are not allowed .  even most religions , women play only a minor role . we live [ still] in a male dominate world . while women had / have  their groups they little power .  here are some books on several groups .  

 

http://askville.amazon.com/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=5548395

 

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you can pick your friends... you can pick your nose .... but you can NEVER pick your friend's nose !!

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even in today's society groups like the Freemasons, Knights Templar  and the Order of Skull and Bones women are not allowed .  even most religions , women play only a minor role . we live [ still] in a male dominate world . while women had / have  their groups they little power .  here are some books on several groups .  

 

http://askville.amazon.com/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=5548395

 

So true Walkabout, and appreciate you bringing it up.  There really are many religions where the male is dominate, and yes, organizations.

It amazes me too that men can have a private club, and society accepts it, but if women were to have one, they would probably be looked down on and given a few unnecessary and disrespectful titles.

Even in politics it appears that women are still having to prove themselves and constantly under extra scrutiny.

DarleneSignaturePic1.jpg

"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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In the past whem women had secret societies they usually got burned at the stake!  I do believe though, there are probably small secret women's societies here and there.

Yes, women in secret societies were considered witches, and burned.

No doubt there are secret women's societies, and probably covered up with a beauty product, or something related to just women.

DarleneSignaturePic1.jpg

"Time is too slow for those who wait; too swift for those who fear;

too long for  those who grieve; too short for those who rejoice.

But for those who love, time is eternity."

(Jane Fellowes)

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 You have to wonder, about the old man.  He was such a good character.  He  fought  the good fight.  He had to have known about the  darker side of the group. He had to have known the cultish ways that the group recruited members. Why would he have gone along?

"I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen"

W. H. Auden
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