Very strange murder mystery

[Libby]

Back in the 1960s, Leigh Ann and John Sabine married. It was her first marriage, and John’s second (he had two children from his first marriage). The couple went on to have five children. They emigrated from Wales to New Zealand, but abandoned those children there. Eventually, they returned to the UK and subsequently settled back in Wales. Shortly after their return to Wales, John disappeared. That was in 1997. Few of their neighbours there remember seeing John. But he remained on the electoral role, and his pension was paid into the couple’s joint bank account.

Leigh Ann died in October this year from cancer. Shortly after, human remains were found on the ground next to the block of flats where she had lived, wrapped in plastic. Those remains were identified as John Sabine via DNA from his son. Forensic examination indicated that he had died from blunt force trauma to the head.

It’s impossible to know for sure when he died, but it’s assumed it was some time in 1997, around 18 years ago. It’s also assumed that John’s body was kept in the couple’s flat for all that time. Leigh Ann was a flamboyant and sociable person, and apparently no-one who went into that flat detected any strange odours, but Leigh Ann’s flat was on the upper floor so she had access to the loft space.

The police are releasing very little information, other than that Leigh Ann is their primary suspect. Most of the information that the press has, comes from John’s son in New Zealand, based on what the police have told him. Although Leigh Ann is now dead, there’s still the identity of the person who, on Leigh Ann’s instructions, emptied the flat. Did that person know that the plastic-wrapped package contained a body? John’s son said that the police told him that the body had been tightly wrapped in plastic and all the air had been extracted. It appears that Leigh Ann lived for 18 years with the vacuum-packed body of her husband.

In itself, it’s a bizarre case. But it must be an awful situation for their children – firstly to have been abandoned when they were young, and now having to consider that their mother was more of a monster than they had thought.

[seesthru]

 The death might have been accidental or even self defense, but the motive for keeping his body?  The pension.

 

They abandoned their kids, so they weren't the ideal couple.  My thought is either they fought and it got out of hand, or he was a wife beater and he turned away in the middle of attacking her and she hit him with something., or  perhaps she just wanted rid of him but not his pension.    The person who emptied the apartment, I doubt they had anything to do with the murder, they might not have  known there was a body until they took it outside.  I mean, you get asked to get rid of something all wrapped up, don't you at least want to peek to see if it might be something you want?  They might have peeked, then placed the body  down and left because once you see the body, and you know you're the one that took it out of the apartment, you figure no one would believe your story that you didn't know, and  didn't find out until  you set the body down and looked that it was in fact, a body not a carpet or something else.   Maybe that's why it was next to the apartments on the ground.  They might have been asked to dump it at the dump or in a garbage bin, but  once they got outside they set it down to see what it was, and figured it out pretty quick, before  letting air in the  plastic, so they simply left it there and hastily retreated.

 

Very strange, and then again not.  Her motive for keeping the body is clear. If he's found dead she loses the money his pension brings in.  His death was  most likely at her hands. But, the only two who know the   motive for the death itself are dead.  I do feel bad for the kids. Abandoned.  How did they survive, were they adopted?

Oh I read up on it a bit.  They dumped the kids and then returned to NZ many years later.  Then left again. Seems they were always one step ahead of the law on fraud related stuff, not to mention the child abandonment. The  son says his dad was soft hearted and gentle, got mixed up with the wrong woman.   I think he dumped the kids because he was escaping fraud charges so he's not as soft hearted as imagined, unless  agreed to do so knowing if he went to jail she'd be their  sole parent.   

Such a sad thing for the kids to have been abandoned like that. 

[Libby]

It does seem, from the son's comments, that it was the wife who was a controlling individual. There are plenty of examples, across internet forums, of matriarchs who dominate their husbands, children, and junior in-laws. The husband here could possibly have died by accident, and sometimes when that happens people can go into panic mode. But to have lived, and entertained friends, in a home where there was a vacuum-packed dead body, for 18 years! There was some strange psychology going on there.

I'm not making any excuses for the husband/father. He could have done a lot, lot better in terms of his children if he'd had the guts to stand up for them. Which he obviously didn't.

The police seem to be restricting what info they make available to the media. Probably because they need to know who moved the remains and there needs to be delicate, and private, probing into who did that, as there could be charges of preventing the burial, or worse of conspiracy to murder.

I think that as appalling it is for a body to have been kept for 18 years, it's horribly worst for those children to only have heard what happened to their parents when the police eventually tracked them down. They lost their parents when they were abandoned long ago; then they lost their parents again when the police told them when they'd died.

[seesthru]

The father was running from fraud charges.  That played a part in the abandonment I'm sure.   This wasn't a great couple.  Seems they were wanting the easy money.  So, if they finally get a house, no kids, the lifestyle they were hoping for, and he messes it up?  She brains him and keeps the pension and the lifestyle.  She hung on to that body for one reason and that was the pension. If he were ever found,  even if she got away with murder she'd lose the pension. So she made sure it wasn't found, until her death. After she's dead,  what does she care? She's no need of his pension. Be damned if she allows his body to remain hidden and someone else scam his pension checks though.

 But yeah  I know too well women like  you describe.  Grew up with them as mother figures and sister figures.   One or two of them is quite capable of murdering a man  for his pension.. I'm only surprised they didn't already do it.

[Libby]

That sounds an awful experience for you, seesthru.

I can't quite get to grips with a woman behaving in such a callous, self-seeking way. But I did go no-contact with my mother, after she'd chipped away at my self-confidence throughout my childhood and well into my 30s. Women can be as damaging as men; it's rarer for them to go to such extremes. I guess Danielle Barbakow in "Monster" could have been a candidate for turning into a toxic adult.

 

[seesthru]

Yes women can be as damaging as men. I think they   aren't a rarity, the evil women, they just don't get caught  as often.  Their methods aren't always as overt. 

[Earthnut]

Wow Seesthru, I am so sorry to hear about your mother and sister figures.  Praying they didn't leave you with any scars.

Personally, I feel women can be more damaging then men if given the chance.  Men react through their thinking and lusts of the flesh, whereas women react from their emotional realm, and why they can be more judging, deceitful, revengeful, and hateful.

[Gotham Gal]

The first thing that came to my mind was insurance.

Follow the money.

Interesting (and sad) case.

[seesthru]

 It is the money. Money might not have been why he died, but it most certainly was why she hid the body. She needed his pension checks.

[Earthnut]

As sad as it is for children to not have parents, in many cases, the kids are better off, and in this case, yes they are.  No telling what would have happened if the couple had kept the kids, one, or more, or all of them, might have been abused or murdered.  Clearly, this couple didn't care about the kids, and the kids to me are better off without them.