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Worst Mm Episode....ever


Guest MMawagen

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I have to say, I think "Luminary" is more than a little overrated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:clapping::clapping: FINALLY, i find someone who shares the same opinion of Luminary. I thought it was definately, with the exception of the snow covered mountains at the beginning and the end of Lamentations, the most scenic of all MillenniuM episodes. The natural beauty was just breathtaking, but to me that was about it. Catherine finally trying to understand Frank's gift was touching and to a degree marginally poignant, yet what struck me was that with all the agonizing effort she put into interpreting those photos and books, she was clueless until Jordan came over to point out the picture of Mt. Ventoux. Even then, Catherine chose the wrong photo, indicating to me at least that she wasn't ever going to understand what Frank was about..i dont really see how that leaves a whole lot of interpretation..its message was pretty clear...

What Chip Johannessen appears to have done was to seperate Frank from the group, going out on his own based on his personal feelings. To that end i think he succeeded, but i still think the episode was overrated...JMO..

As for Jose Chung - i actually find that episode more enjoyable than Luminary. To break the mold and strike out 180 degrees out of phase as to what the show is about takes a lot of guts. JC provided a nice light-hearted break for the regular predictable path MillenniuM had taken up until then...JMO..

Somehow Satan Got Behind Me only worked for me personally during the Broadcast Standards and Excellence scenes...that and those of Fawnia Mondey as the Stripper.. :clapping:

again...JMO....

Till the Last Change....Be Done..

The Fourth Horseman..

"And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death. Hades followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the earth was given to him." REV 6:8

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:angry:

Now, did Luminary really separate Frank from the group? Recall, that at the end of the episode it was indeed a test, and that Catherine gave Frank the note that indicated this? If anything, perhaps this brought him closer to the group in some sense. As for Catherine's cluelessness. Two caveats are in order:

1) Jordan's ID of frank in the book may indeed be a reflection of her gift. We must recognize that we are looking--considering from Frank's vantage point. We must step back--outside of the box--and consider the perspective from a woman who, although involved in social work, most likely would indeed have trouble understanding a gift such as Frank's and his seeming inability to 'let go' when he came home.

2) I saw her ineptness at ID'ing him more indicative of her own struggle, perhaps anger, etc. that Frank was putting work ahead of her. Perhaps it blinded her momentarily, while with Jordan it did not. This point is related to #1, but yet somewhat a discrete proposition...

Gentlemen and ladies,

let's discuss

A thought expressed by William James in 1902 and quoted by Wells deserves renewed attention: [Cleckley, 1988 5th edition]

Yonder puny fellow however, whom everyone can beat suffers no chagrin about it, for he has long ago abandoned the attempt to “carry that line,” as the merchants say, of Self at all. With no attempt there can be no failure; with no failure, no humiliation. So our self-feeling in this world depends entirely on what we back ourselves to be and do. It is determined by the ratio of our actualities to our supposed potentialities; a fraction of which our pretensions are the denominator and the numerator our success: thus, self-esteem = Success/Pretensions. Such a fraction may be increased as well by diminishing the denominator as by increasing the numerator. To give up pretensions is as blessed a relief as to get them gratified; and where disappointment is incessant and the struggle unending, this is what men will always do. The history of evangelical theology, with its conviction of sin, its self-despair, and its abandonment of salvation by works, is the deepest of all possible examples, but we meet others in every walk of life….How pleasant is the day when we give up striving to be young—or slender! Thank God! We say, those illusions are gone. Everything added to the self is a burden as well as a pride.

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:angry:

Now, did Luminary really separate Frank from the group?  Recall, that at the end of the episode it was indeed a test, and that Catherine gave Frank the note that indicated this?  If anything, perhaps this brought him closer to the group in some sense.  As for Catherine's cluelessness.  Two caveats are in order:

1) Jordan's ID of frank in the book may indeed be a reflection of her gift.  We must recognize that we are looking--considering from Frank's vantage point.  We must step back--outside of the box--and consider the perspective from a woman who, although involved in social work, most likely would indeed have trouble understanding a gift such as Frank's and his seeming inability to 'let go' when he came home.

2) I saw her ineptness at ID'ing him more indicative of her own struggle, perhaps anger, etc. that Frank was putting work ahead of her.  Perhaps it blinded her momentarily, while with Jordan it did not.  This point is related to #1, but yet somewhat a discrete proposition...

Gentlemen and ladies,

let's discuss

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey my good friend...here is what Chip Johannessen says about Luminary:

Taken from the episode synopsis from The MillenniuM Abyss

Johannessen explains that his motivation in writing "Luminary" was to separate Frank Black from the Millennium Group, even as Frank is being considered for a more integral role in the shadowy organization. "I wanted to write a story where Frank chose to stand up to the Millennium Group and do something he felt was personally important, based just on his instinct and his vision. Although the Millennium Group was clearly pleased with him in the end, it wasn't a task they set for him and yet it was the right thing for him to do, and they were wise enough to see that.

"And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death. Hades followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the earth was given to him." REV 6:8

fourthhorsemananimatedsigna3rr.gif

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Interesting Fourth, interesting. Although it separated him from the group, it pleased them. Somewhat of a juxtaposition and paradox there that we can further discuss.

A thought expressed by William James in 1902 and quoted by Wells deserves renewed attention: [Cleckley, 1988 5th edition]

Yonder puny fellow however, whom everyone can beat suffers no chagrin about it, for he has long ago abandoned the attempt to “carry that line,” as the merchants say, of Self at all. With no attempt there can be no failure; with no failure, no humiliation. So our self-feeling in this world depends entirely on what we back ourselves to be and do. It is determined by the ratio of our actualities to our supposed potentialities; a fraction of which our pretensions are the denominator and the numerator our success: thus, self-esteem = Success/Pretensions. Such a fraction may be increased as well by diminishing the denominator as by increasing the numerator. To give up pretensions is as blessed a relief as to get them gratified; and where disappointment is incessant and the struggle unending, this is what men will always do. The history of evangelical theology, with its conviction of sin, its self-despair, and its abandonment of salvation by works, is the deepest of all possible examples, but we meet others in every walk of life….How pleasant is the day when we give up striving to be young—or slender! Thank God! We say, those illusions are gone. Everything added to the self is a burden as well as a pride.

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:angry:

Now, did Luminary really separate Frank from the group?  Recall, that at the end of the episode it was indeed a test, and that Catherine gave Frank the note that indicated this?  If anything, perhaps this brought him closer to the group in some sense.  As for Catherine's cluelessness.  Two caveats are in order:

1) Jordan's ID of frank in the book may indeed be a reflection of her gift.  We must recognize that we are looking--considering from Frank's vantage point.  We must step back--outside of the box--and consider the perspective from a woman who, although involved in social work, most likely would indeed have trouble understanding a gift such as Frank's and his seeming inability to 'let go' when he came home.

2) I saw her ineptness at ID'ing him more indicative of her own struggle, perhaps anger, etc. that Frank was putting work ahead of her.  Perhaps it blinded her momentarily, while with Jordan it did not.  This point is related to #1, but yet somewhat a discrete proposition...

Gentlemen and ladies,

let's discuss

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey my good friend...here is what Chip Johannessen says about Luminary:

Taken from the episode synopsis from The MillenniuM Abyss

Johannessen explains that his motivation in writing "Luminary" was to separate Frank Black from the Millennium Group, even as Frank is being considered for a more integral role in the shadowy organization. "I wanted to write a story where Frank chose to stand up to the Millennium Group and do something he felt was personally important, based just on his instinct and his vision. Although the Millennium Group was clearly pleased with him in the end, it wasn't a task they set for him and yet it was the right thing for him to do, and they were wise enough to see that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting Fourth, interesting.  Although it separated him from the group, it pleased them.  Somewhat of a juxtaposition and paradox there that we can further discuss.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oooooooooo...........tooooooooooo much to say......... soooo many thoughts at once!!!! :headhurts:

I thought this revealed a great deal about why Catherine and Frank's relationship was not working. As you said "V", it was obvious that her own ability to see Frank for what he really was being overshadowed by her logical mind, which was reacting to what violence had happened, and she was unable to detach from it enough to see the "big picture".

This is great.....I just love reading others thoughts on this episode. :bigsmile:

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Oooooooooo...........tooooooooooo much to say......... soooo many thoughts at once!!!!  :headhurts:

I thought this revealed a great deal about why Catherine and Frank's relationship was not working.  As you said "V", it was obvious that her own ability to see Frank for what he really was being overshadowed by her logical mind, which was reacting to what violence had happened, and she was unable to detach from it enough to see the "big picture".

This is great.....I just love reading others thoughts on this episode.  :bigsmile:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man oh Man...its all just my opinion...Now i know we had this discussion on another thread somewhere, but i guess its one of those issues that never really gets settled..oh well, if you remember later in the episode when she went to visit Peter, she was told it all had to do with understanding your place in the order of things...Catherine got upset, crossed her arms in the classic defensive posture, and via that very action of focusing the issue on herself ("so its my fault), she missed what Peter was trying to say, thereby missing the "bigger picture"...IMO..whew!!! brutal crowd!! :cry: LOL

"And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death. Hades followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the earth was given to him." REV 6:8

fourthhorsemananimatedsigna3rr.gif

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Guest ZeusFaber
:clapping:  :clapping: FINALLY, i find someone who shares the same opinion of Luminary. ...

As for Jose Chung - i actually find that episode more enjoyable than Luminary. To break the mold and strike out 180 degrees out of phase as to what the show is about takes a lot of guts. JC provided a nice light-hearted break for the regular predictable path MillenniuM had taken up until then...JMO..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do agree with you about both of these episodes. One of the things with "Luminary" is that it just fails to inspire me to get passionate about it one way or the other. It just didn't engage me in that way. I'd have to watch it again to come up with detailed notes, but that's part of the problem -- it's just not one of those episode that I often feel like watching again. It's the slow pace that does it for me, I think.

As for "Jose Chung's Doomsday Defense", I think it was probably a lot easier to adjust to immediately because of DM's prior work on The X-Files. Those of us who marvelled at his work there, including "Jose Chung's From Outer Space", probably knew exactly what to expect and so had no problem with his style and tone. That might be a contributing factor to the split opinions.

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Man oh Man...its all just my opinion...Now i know we had this discussion on another thread somewhere, but i guess its one of those issues that never really gets settled..oh well, if you remember later in the episode when she went to visit Peter, she was told it all had to do with understanding your place in the order of things...Catherine got upset, crossed her arms in the classic defensive posture, and via that very action of focusing the issue on herself ("so its my fault), she missed what Peter was trying to say, thereby missing the "bigger picture"...IMO..whew!!! brutal crowd!!  LOL

Fourth, it is exactly this scene that heightened the episode's quality IMO. In saying that Catherine 'missed' what Watts was trying to say, we are again looking through this at an angle that Catherine couldn't possibly have known. Now, I do happen to agree with what seems to be your premise that Catherine should have known. That is, given Frank's line of work and his 'gift' for which the MM group recruited/accepted him, she should have been aware of the fact that oftentimes Frank would be 'out of touch' and how to handle that. Now, keep in mind that is asking a lot of her, and in an equal relationship, there needs to be give and take. It is interesting to watch SIII thus far and see more of the reality that Frank's gift, his committment to his work, often comes before even Jordan, although I get the sense that Frank wants to do well by her. But it is quite clear that the gift is first. If you take a look at any sports superstar, academic genius, or the like, I think one will see that one aspect of such brilliance is the need to stay 'out of touch.' I have mentioned this before, and there has been commentary in general about it in such magazines as GQ and the like (for example, in one GQ piece, Pete Sampras' downfall from Tennis brilliance was noted once he started his current relationship; keeping in mind downfall is relevant here).

Also, cf. my discussion on Rilke, and why I think that a future episode based on his life would be fantastic...................................

Continuing the discussion...........

Vv

A thought expressed by William James in 1902 and quoted by Wells deserves renewed attention: [Cleckley, 1988 5th edition]

Yonder puny fellow however, whom everyone can beat suffers no chagrin about it, for he has long ago abandoned the attempt to “carry that line,” as the merchants say, of Self at all. With no attempt there can be no failure; with no failure, no humiliation. So our self-feeling in this world depends entirely on what we back ourselves to be and do. It is determined by the ratio of our actualities to our supposed potentialities; a fraction of which our pretensions are the denominator and the numerator our success: thus, self-esteem = Success/Pretensions. Such a fraction may be increased as well by diminishing the denominator as by increasing the numerator. To give up pretensions is as blessed a relief as to get them gratified; and where disappointment is incessant and the struggle unending, this is what men will always do. The history of evangelical theology, with its conviction of sin, its self-despair, and its abandonment of salvation by works, is the deepest of all possible examples, but we meet others in every walk of life….How pleasant is the day when we give up striving to be young—or slender! Thank God! We say, those illusions are gone. Everything added to the self is a burden as well as a pride.

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Guest betweenthelines

Hmm, surprised to see that 'The Well-Worn Lock' is frowned upon. I think this is one of the better Season 1 episodes since it was a change of pace from the serial killer plots that were becoming commonplace during that time.

One episode I can't get into is 'Dead Letters'. Not sure why; it starts out well but then I start losing interest as it goes on.

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