Millennium Group...illuminati?

[Guest fledgling666]

every bit of information i have read about or looked up on the web about the illuminati has been crap. i have never once seen facts, i have never once seen an actual historical reference to the group and i have never once heard of anything they might have done in the real world, with facts and documentation. i have, however, read a lot of fiction and some rantings by such people as A. William Cooper and his book, Behold a Pale Horse, as well as plenty of internet mumbo-jumbo. from what i gather, it's the same as aliens, people WANT to believe, so they do, because this can't be all there is, it just can't........

[Guest tarc]

every bit of information  i have read about or looked up on the web about the illuminati has been crap. i have never once seen facts, i have never once seen an actual historical reference to the group and i have never once heard of anything they might have done in the real world, with facts and documentation. i have, however, read a lot of fiction and some rantings by such people as A. William Cooper and his book, Behold a Pale Horse, as well as plenty of internet mumbo-jumbo. from what i gather, it's the same as aliens, people WANT to believe, so they do, because this can't be all there is, it just can't........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps that is just what they want you to think, a form of "the Devil's greatest achievement was convincing man he didn't exist".

[Guest fledgling666]

you could say that about ANYTHING.

[Guest Seraphim]

you could say that about ANYTHING.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Though, the same goes for your point. There are a lot of things that are "proven", that there is no real evidence to support. What you believe or don't is fine, it's the "know-it-all" way that you say it. To discount something because there is no "proof" is very small minded. Try to keep a more open mind. It's freethinkers who actually advance humanity. Dogmatics only induce ignorance.

[Raven Wolf]

It's freethinkers who actually advance humanity. Dogmatics only induce ignorance.

Thank you for that.

This has been a fasinating thread....making me want to learn more about this subject. I've never heard of "Illumnati", and don't even know how to pronounce it! Just so you know, since this has become a very popular subject, Graham has sugessted that part of one of the new forums we're going to be introducing here will actualy focus on this subject.... The Mytharcs of Millennium and their real-world counterparts. In recent years, I've been suprised to find there is a lot more going on in the real world that I thought only happened in the movies!

[Guest fledgling666]

Though, the same goes for your point.  There are a lot of things that are "proven", that there is no real evidence to support. What you believe or don't is fine, it's the "know-it-all" way that you say it. To discount something because there is no "proof" is very small minded. Try to keep a more open mind. It's freethinkers who actually advance humanity. Dogmatics only induce ignorance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so it's those who believe in the Illuminati that are going to "advance humanity," whatever that means, correct?

and so it's those that believe in the Illuminati that you would call free thinkers, correct?

and so after all this time being bombarded by conspiracy stories in the US about our government, about masons, about the Illuminati, watching the tide turn in this great country from level-headed folk to conspiracy nut majorities, you'd think that people would think the "free-thinkers" are those that choose not to be coerced into believing a conspiracy theory such as this.

it should also be pretty well established by now, that i post my opinion on these boards, nothing else, and it should never be taken as anything other than my opinion, but then, no one's comment ever should be taken as fact on these boards or any other message board, unless it is introduced as such. i am just very straight forward with what i believe and what i don't.

i believe there are no free thinkers in this day and age, and if there are, they are not talking to us.

[Raven Wolf]

A "theory" is just that. A theory. And being a free-thinker simply means that you are open to new theories.

I'm not saying I believe in the illuminati. But I AM saying that, now that this information has been brought to my attention, it has aroused my curiosity to try to find out more. Being a free-thinker simply means that I won't just say.... "There are no such things as illuminatites!" Or "There are no such things as aliens." Since the question has been raised, I choose to find out what I can, and base my openins on what I learn and perceive, while trying to educate myself. That is "what it means to be a free-thinker". It means to be open enough and HUMBLE ENOUGH, to admit that we don't know everything, and set out to learn as much as we can.

Here is a free-thinker talking to you right now!

[Guest Seraphim]

i believe there are no free thinkers in this day and age, and if there are, they are not talking to us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe that is your problem right there. With such shallow thinking I doubt you could see a freethinker as anything but mad. The Illuminati is not something proven. It is a theory. I would say that it is logical that, at least in the past four years, that conspiranoia would take hold. There have been activities right out of Orwell's "1984". Those who believe every conspiracy theory are quite out there. And those who believe in no possibilities that don't fit in their own little bubble are just as ignorant. It's true that people believe and disbelieve what they want to. That's why things can be as bad as they are. It's best to go through life with an open mind. To consider some things are possible. Some conspiracies have been proven, archeology has proven some claims of the bible, science has been forced to change it's stance dramatically due to new discoveries. If one cannot consider possibilities and change their mind about things sometimes, then they will never truly grow and change. Believing in the Illuminati is not the sign of a freethinker. Considering the possibility of things that others won't is. I myself am a freethinker. I don't limit myself to the orthodoxy of science, religion, and the like. I look at the world as a place of mystery and wonder. But so many people don't notice or care. They go on with their self absorbed lives and do and believe whatever they are told. They don't try and find personal meaning to things. To find their own beliefs and understandings. Or they embrace everything as truth and get lost in the flow. Accepting everything is not freethinking. To be honest, like the opposite, it isn't thinking at all. ^_^;;; The kind of people who find several books in the new age section and instantly believe all of it. Not even considering for themselves, just jumping on the band wagon. They are so open minded, that their brain falls out. It's a lot like the people who blindly flock to Dubyah or Pat Robertson because of their supposed "Christian" influence. They don't bother to understand the bible for themselves. They are so close minded, that their brains cannot breathe. None of these types of people change the world for the better. They only drudge us through the same nonsense over and over. Freethinkers still exist, they just are called crazy. Socrates, Galileo, Rousseau, Christ, etc.. were all said to be crazy. One cannot often recognize people who think outside the box, because they are too busy calling them insane.

[Raven Wolf]

They are so open minded, that their brain falls out.

True...but so funny!

One cannot often recognize people who think outside the box, because they are too busy calling them insane.

Thank you for this. I've been feeling pretty insane of late!

[Guest fledgling666]

Maybe that is your problem right there. With such shallow thinking I doubt you could see a freethinker as anything but mad.

depends, i'd have to hear the fruit of his thinking first, then decide.

The Illuminati is not something proven. It is a theory.

and until it is proven, it is fiction. not that i don't, myself, have some theories that people find odd or outside the norm, but i won't call any of them anything but fictional, unless i took the time enough to find them out as facts. if we throw every theory to the wind, we have done nothing but clutter the brainwaves to the point of no return, to the point that the truth will never be found.

i keep coming back to this: Michael Crichton's speech linked-to in the now disappeared "Debate Den." his main reason for making the speech was to illustrate to his audience the difficulty in sifting through the mass sea of information in the world to find the facts. not about this, but about anything, about everything.

I would say that it is logical that, at least in the past four years, that conspiranoia would take hold. There have been activities right out of Orwell's "1984".

in my opinion, the only thing about "1984" that has come about is the public paranoia associated with a government that doesn't talk much.

Those who believe every conspiracy theory are quite out there. And those who believe in no possibilities that don't fit in their own little bubble are just as ignorant.

and i agree with this 100%. see, just because you don't see the thought process i go through before posting my opinion on a matter doesn't mean i didn't have any. that just means you didn't see it. maybe i WAS open to it and did a little research, maybe not. maybe i already had done that research and decided before i posted, in fact, maybe long ago, that the story about this group and maybe the name and a few other things were fictional. maybe i'm just waiting for the world to catch up with me, maybe not.

It's true that people believe and disbelieve what they want to. That's why things can be as bad as they are.

i think this might be referring to the political situation in the US and around the globe, so i think i'll steer clear of it for now as there must be a reason the "Den" was disappeared and i think it may have had to do with political and religious discussions (which i think are still warranted in the scope of the feel of the show).

It's best to go through life with an open mind.

i would have to make what i would call a "correction" to that statement by putting the word "moderately" just before "open."

To consider some things are possible. Some conspiracies have been proven, archeology has proven some claims of the bible, science has been forced to change it's stance dramatically due to new discoveries.

i'd like to hear some of your thoughts on this. i have never seen or heard of a discovery made, pertaining to the bible, that has caused science to change anything. i have heard of discoveries made that confirm some stories in the bible, but that is explained easily by the longstanding theory that the bible was written from an age-old set of stories starting with the Gilgamesh, but intersperced with actual stories or historical accounts from the time period in which each book or chapter was written.

If one cannot consider possibilities and change their mind about things sometimes, then they will never truly grow and change. Believing in the Illuminati is not the sign of a freethinker. Considering the possibility of things that others won't is. I myself am a freethinker. I don't limit myself to the orthodoxy of science, religion, and the like. I look at the world as a place of mystery and wonder. But so many people don't notice or care. They go on with their self absorbed lives and do and believe whatever they are told. They don't try and find personal meaning to things. To find their own beliefs and understandings. Or they embrace everything as truth and get lost in the flow. Accepting everything is not freethinking. To be honest, like the opposite, it isn't thinking at all. ^_^;;; The kind of people who find several books in the new age section and instantly believe all of it. Not even considering for themselves, just jumping on the band wagon. They are so open minded, that their brain falls out. It's a lot like the people who blindly flock to Dubyah or Pat Robertson because of their supposed "Christian" influence. They don't bother to understand the bible for themselves. They are so close minded, that their brains cannot breathe.

i 100% agree with your first 3 sentences. and i, too, see the world as a vastly undiscovered place. "wonder" and "mystery" are idealistic words used to describe that, but not wholly out of place. so many people don't care partly because they have the other million jobs there are to do in the world other than to "think freely." it's not necessarily that they don't CARE, it's possible it's that they've already made their peace with the world and their position in it and are comfortable with that - no, not comfortable or satisfied, but FULFILLED. not going to say much to the second half of the quote as i've already stated there was a place for that and it is gone.

None of these types of people change the world for the better. They only drudge us through the same nonsense over and over.

i don't agree with this at all, but that could be because i don't agree with the stereo-typing of the sort of people being spoken about. like i said, you don't know a great many of their situations. decisions such as these may have been made already, and may have been well-researched and long-thought-out. the decision to be complete in menial life, if that is the truth, is just as righteous as the one to try to shape the world in your image.

Freethinkers still exist, they just are called crazy. Socrates, Galileo, Rousseau, Christ, etc.. were all said to be crazy. One cannot often recognize people who think outside the box, because they are too busy calling them insane.

the old thinkers thoughts still exist with us because we have preserved them. there are no new thinkers to pick up where they left off. the crazy people of the world are just that, crazy. those with odd ideas and theories, are just that, people with odd ideas and theories, not crazy, just not thinking in the same direction as you, but then that can be said about a great many people, or, in fact, just about everyone on the planet.

by "One" i'll assume you mean me, in this instance, and that's ok, because these sorts of statements often backfire, anyway. i recognize, believe me, i do, it's just that i DISAGREE. there IS room for that in "free thinking," is there not?