Millennium Group...illuminati?

[Guest fledgling666]

I hate that show with a passion >.<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, at least we agree on something..........

the tree was the easiest, quickest way to say what i was getting at, that there are 2 realms concerning fact and fiction and they are just that, fact and fiction, period. if it's not a fact, it's fiction. if it is a fact, it's not fiction. but it can be fiction and then proven to be a fact and it can be factual and proven to be fiction. so far as i can tell, the Illuminati is a fictional organization, like the Millennium group, but also, as far as i can tell, that is where the similarities end.

[Raven Wolf]

Well.... I'd love to hear your take on the pharse "Practicing Medicine". That one's always bugged me! I say..."If you're still practicing...then keep your hand off of me!"

[hippyroo]

well, at least we agree on something..........

the tree was the easiest, quickest way to say what i was getting at, that there are 2 realms concerning fact and fiction and they are just that, fact and fiction, period. if it's not a fact, it's fiction. if it is a fact, it's not fiction. but it can be fiction and then proven to be a fact and it can be factual and proven to be fiction. so far as i can tell, the Illuminati is a fictional organization, like the Millennium group, but also, as far as i can tell, that is where the similarities end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

are you sure of anything other than you can't be sure of facts becasue they might turn into fiction, and you aren't sure of fiction because they might turn into truths?

can you prove that I love my children? it's a fact, but can you prove it?

[Guest SouthernCelt]

Hasn't this topic gotten a little off the beam????

[Guest fledgling666]

yeah, i tried to get it back on, but, oh, well.

as for love and proof of it? well, getting that sorta proof is usually not a pretty sight. proof of love can be found in choices made in difficult times or extreme moments. it can also be seen over time. and, of course, again, just my opinion on that.

[kenscanna]

"i have never once seen an actual historical reference to the group and i have never once heard of anything they might have done in the real world, with facts and documentation"

erm...have a look in the Encyclopedia Britannica, also any history source that goes back to old Bavarian Government/social political studies, as both a History nut and a secret society researcher i can assure you that the Illuminati DID exist and DID hold a great degree of power, it was argued as weather they dissolved or not,, just wanna break down a few points discussed here,

1.) The Skull and Bones have nothing to do with the Illuminati, they only came into question when Dan Browns book became popular, the only similaritys are ancient rituals and heavy selection process. In some writings its even stated that they opposed the illuminati's ways .

2.) The Federal Reserve...well, i think this lies as a mystery to us all really ... Illuminati...i'm not convinced...but possibly

3.) The Nick Cave film was whack!

"heres my thing..."

k

[The Old Man]

Here's an Illuminati Avatar I came across, if anyone would like to use it on the Board or elsewhere:

with white background:

with transparent background:

Graham.

* Both of these have been added to the MillenniuM Avatars Gallery and are available in your My Controls>Change Avatar Settings. They are 100x100 in size.

Edited February 24, 2005 by The Old Man

[Guest fledgling666]

"i have never once seen an actual historical reference to the group and i have never once heard of anything they might have done in the real world, with facts and documentation" 

erm...have a look in the Encyclopedia Britannica, also any history source that goes back to old Bavarian Government/social political studies, as both a History nut and a secret society researcher i can assure you that the Illuminati DID exist and DID hold a great degree of power, it was argued as weather they dissolved or not,, just wanna break down a few points discussed here,

1.) The Skull and Bones have nothing to do with the Illuminati, they only came into question when Dan Browns book became popular, the only similaritys are ancient rituals and heavy selection process.  In some writings its even stated that they opposed the illuminati's ways .

2.) The Federal Reserve...well, i think this lies as a mystery to us all really ... Illuminati...i'm not convinced...but possibly 

3.)  The Nick Cave film was whack!

"heres my thing..."

k

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went to wikipedia instead, seems you were right in one sense, that there was a group of people that called themselves "illuminati" at one point in history and were serious about it. seems they were very closely modeled after the masonic lodge and were quickly shut down. here's what wiki says:

The Bavarian Illuminati

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History

A short-lived movement of republican freethinkers, the most radical offshoot of the Enlightenment, to whose adherents the name Illuminati was given, (but who called themselves "Perfectibilists"), was founded on May 1, 1776 by the ex-Jesuit Adam Weishaupt (d. 1830), professor of canon law, and Baron Adolph von Knigge, in Ingolstadt, Bavaria (now Germany). The group has also been called the Illuminati Order, the Order of the Illuminati, and the Bavarian Illuminati.

In the conservative state of Bavaria, where the progressive and enlightened elector Maximilian III Joseph von Wittelsbach was succeeded (1777) by his conservative heir Karl Theodor, and which was dominated by the Roman Catholic Church and the aristocracy, such an organization did not last long before it was suppressed by the powers that be. In 1784, the Bavarian government banned all secret societies including the Illuminati and the Freemasons. The structure of the Illuminati soon collapsed, but while it was in existence many influential intellectuals and progressive politicians counted themselves as members.

Its members, drawn primarily from Masons and former Masons, pledged obedience to their superiors, and were divided into three main classes: the first, known as the Nursery, encompassed the ascending degrees or offices of Preparation, Novice, Minerval and Illuminatus Minor; the second, known as the Masonry, consisting of the ascending degrees of Illuminatus Major and Illuminatus dirigens, the latter also sometimes called Scotch Knight; the third, designated the Mysteries, was subdivided into the degrees of the Lesser Mysteries (Presbyter and Regent) and those of the Greater Mysteries (Magus and Rex). Relations with masonic lodges were established at Munich and Freising in 1780.

The order had its branches in most countries of the European continent, but its total numbers never seem to have exceeded two thousand. The scheme had its attraction for literary men, such as Goethe and Herder, and even for the reigning dukes of Gotha and Weimar. Internal rupture preceded its downfall, which was effected by an edict of the Bavarian government in 1785.

[edit]

Cultural effect

Despite the organization's lifespan, the Bavarian Illuminati have cast a long shadow in popular history, thanks to the writings of their opponents. The lurid allegations of conspiracy theory that have colored the image of the Freemasons have practically opaqued that of the Illuminati. In 1797 Abbé Augustin Barruél published Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism outlining a vivid conspiracy theory involving the Knights Templars, the Rosicrucians, the Jacobins and the Illuminati. Simultaneously and independently, a Scottish Mason and professor of natural history named John Robison started to publish Proofs of a Conspiracy Against all the Religions and Governments of Europe in 1798. When he saw the similar work done by Barruél, he included large quotes from the latter's work. Robison claimed to present evidence of an Illuminati conspiracy striving to replace all religions and nations with humanism and a single world government, respectively.

More recently, Antony C. Sutton suggested that the secret society Skull and Bones was founded as the American branch of the Illuminati. Others think Scroll and Key has Illumnati origins, as well. Robert Gillete has claimed that these Illuminati ultimately intend to establish a world government through assassination, bribery, blackmail, the control of banks and other financial powers, the infiltration of governments, and by causing wars and revolution to move their own people into higher positions in the political hierarchy.

Thomas Jefferson, on the other hand, claimed they intended to spread information and the principles of true morality. He attributed the secrecy of the Illuminati to what he called "the tyranny of a despot and priests".

Both seem to agree that the enemies of the Illuminati were the monarchs of Europe and the Church. Barruél claimed that the French revolution (1789) was engineered and controlled by the Illuminati through the Jacobins, and later conspiracy theorists have also claimed their responsibility for the Russian Revolution (1917), although the order was officially shut down in 1790. Very few historians give credence to these views; they regard such claims as the products of overfertile imaginations.

my opinion on the matter resides with the last line here and with the historians mentioned.

[Guest arcanamundi]

went to wikipedia instead, seems you were right in one sense, that there was a group of people that called themselves "illuminati" at one point in history and were serious about it. seems they were very closely modeled after the masonic lodge and were quickly shut down. here's what wiki says:

my opinion on the matter resides with the last line here and with the historians mentioned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about Skull & Bones: is it theory or fact that the most recent Presidential election was one Bonesman competing with another for mastery of the so-called 'free world'?

[Guest arcanamundi]

My favorite take on the Illuminati is the trilogy 'Illuminatus!' by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson. It is a true cult classic, a brilliant and hilarious satire on conspiracy theory, as well as an epistemological consideration of the subject (a clue: Wilson is big on quantum physics and Heisenberg). Chris Carter has admitted in an on-line chat to having been influenced by Robert Anton Wilson (as well as Colin Wilson's). Surely there must be other Robert Anton Wilson fans on this board!

This is a very cool thread!