Basking In The Afterglow Of Luminary

[Guest arcanamundi]

I just watched 'Luminary' again, and I have just a couple more comments.

I agree with Southern Celt's interpretation of the episode given further up in this thread, though like some others of us I was nagged by the question 'Who was the floater?' I loved the episode but I don't like being tricked and I suspected some sleight of hand was going here. And I thought I'd found it in the scene at the sheriff's office when Frank is explaining his research to the sheriff who was a bit grouchy at being lied to by Frank (who didn't tell him he wasn't working on behalf of the Group). Its the same scene where the sheriff asks 'Who's the floater, then?' Frank, who has caught the scent and is on the hunt, brushes off the question.

And just when I think 'Aha! Gotcha! A contradiction!' the scene has already cut to Frank on the hunt, and Alex's voiceover hits me: 'God doesn't move us by telling us the facts; He moves us by pains and contradictions. He's given me a lack of understanding, not answers but questions....an invitation to marvel...and here, for the first time, I have.'

And suddenly I feel like the writer is speaking to me, and the 'sleight of hand', while apparent, doesn't matter, and my attention shifts to what is significant in the episode, which is the identification of Frank Black with Alex Ventoux. And I think, whoa! I marvel. When Frank finally comes upon Alex, he finds him leaning back, watching the stars as at a sky show; when we first see Frank at the top of the ep, he is leaning back watching the stars at a sky show. There are a few other clues.

Last thing: Frank's refusal to ride back with Peter is a character thing, I think. It seems like such a gut reaction on Frank's part: more than being cut off by the Group, more than forcing him to go and rescue the kid on his own, Peter & the Group broke into his home, monitored his computer, violated his trust; his anger & pride left him no other choice.

I apologize if I've blathered on unduly, belaboring the obvious. I just think this episode is so brilliant and not as obvious as first appears.

I'll shut up now.

[Guest MMawagen]

Well, I do believe that the injured Alex is "real" (for lack of a better term) and not a spiritual manifestation and I think Frank clearly believes that from his dialog, actions, and from his conversation with Catherine at the end. The floater was just Alex's shell of his previous self, like a snakeskin after molting. It even looks like an empty shell, like a skinbag, as it journeys from the forest and down the river. Of course, this could just be them going cheap with the budget but it seemed a bit too obvious for me. Also, I do think Frank recognizes this early on. I sure wish this episode had the director's/writer's commentary! It seems they always choose to have commentary for the straightforward episodes and not for those open to differing interpretations.

Been thinking about this and while I am inclined to agree with you here - that the body  actually was Alex's -  I too am a little stymied.  You say that Frank sensed in some obscure way that the decayed body would lead him to Alex; are you also saying that although Frank knew the body was Alex, he persuaded the local authorities to i.d. it as a John Doe so as not to unduly upset the parents, and so as to give him enough time to -- what?  To find his way to and retrieve the only apparently wounded  spiritual self of Alex?  I'm having trouble swallowing that. 

I think I'm more inclined to accept the interpretation that the dead body was Alex, but that Frank did not know it and was blinded by either his focused determination or by higher powers leading him on to some kind of personal gnosis.  I think he sincerely believed he was rescuing a surviving Alex.  Yet he didn't seem that surprised when Alex disappeared from the hospital.

I also think a case might be made that the floater was not Alex, perhaps an anonymous peer to whom Alex gave his jacket like he gave away his other possessions.  But I don't think so.    Alex strikes me as generous but not so stupid as to give away his jacket and freeze his ass off; he did say he wanted to live & not die.  Besides, watching that floater in the opening teaser  with Alex's voice over narrating was supposed to lead the viewer to think that was him.

I know it sounds like I'm nit-picking here, but it really does matter to whatever sense the episode is to ultimately make.  I think MMawagen is right: the floater is Alex's shell, but I don't think Frank recognizes it at that point (the autopsy).  I think in this episode we find ourselves in that zone where lived reality and symbolic reality begin to merge; and is that not an attribute of the spiritual plane?  And come to think of it, isn't that a place that Frank finds himself more and more in the course of the series?  Maybe he did sense on some level that the floater was Alex Grazer and that he had to find Alex Ventoux...

Heck, I think I just took the long way round to just re-state what MMawagen said in  2 or 3 sentences. I guess I agree with you after all! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest F_Black]

Well, I do believe that the injured Alex is "real" (for lack of a better term) and not a spiritual manifestation and I think Frank clearly believes that from his dialog, actions, and from his conversation with Catherine at the end. The floater was just Alex's shell of his previous self, like a snakeskin after molting.  It even looks like an empty shell, like a skinbag, as it journeys from the forest and down the river.  Of course, this could just be them going cheap with the budget but it seemed a bit too obvious for me. Also, I do think Frank recognizes this early on. I sure wish this episode had the director's/writer's commentary!  It seems they always choose to have commentary for the straightforward episodes and not for those open to differing interpretations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, that settles it: Someone go watch the episode and tell us whether Alex is wearing a jacket when Frank finds him and if it looks the same as the one on the floatr.

[Guest F_Black]

Okay, that settles it: Someone go watch the episode and tell us whether Alex is wearing a jacket when Frank finds him and if it looks the same as the one on the floatr.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I just did what I suggested.

For the record, here in the real Seattle it is a typical Millennium day: Cold, gray, and raining.

I find I must disagree with the apparent consensus here that Alex had, in reality, died up in the mountains and his body was the floater. For one thing, I noted that the floater was wearing a bright red coat and Alex, when found, did not. Why a disembodied-and-then-reimbodied spirit would choose to change clothes seems problematic to me.

Next, the hospital staff didn't seem to indicate anything particularly mysterious about Alex's leaving at the end, just that "Nobody saw him leave". There doesn't seem to be anything particularly mysterious here either.

Generally speaking, I think the floater was used simply as a plot device to show us that Frank was beginning to regain trust in his Gift and his dogged determination to find Alex. The floater was simply there, I believe, to make sure we have the impression that anyone other than Frank -- the coroner, the sheriff, the Group -- would have simply assumed Alex had been found and that was that. It was a turning point where Frank began to go beyond the Group, and in so doing, find his drive once again to do what was right. This was set up at the beginning when he was interviewed by the Group and he tried to defend his sense of self as a person doing right rather than a simple member of the Group doing what they wanted.

I also didn't think the scene with the family said anything particularly weird. It appeared as if Frank simply thought that Alex had wandered off again and might come back some day, but not as the same teenager as when he left.

So, in essence, I don't see any particular reason to think Alex was dead all along; though that is a viable interpretation, I don't believe there is anything in the episode to lead one inexorably to that position.

The one flaw in this argument, however, is the fact that Frank used the sprig of evergreen from the floater to trace the origin of where the body went in the water originally, which ended up leading to where Alex was. So who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

[Guest blondton13]

And I just did what I suggested.

For the record, here in the real Seattle it is a typical Millennium day: Cold, gray, and raining.

I find I must disagree with the apparent consensus here that Alex had, in reality, died up in the mountains and his body was the floater. For one thing, I noted that the floater was wearing a bright red coat and Alex, when found, did not. Why a disembodied-and-then-reimbodied spirit would choose to change clothes seems problematic to me.

Next, the hospital staff didn't seem to indicate anything particularly mysterious about Alex's leaving at the end, just that "Nobody saw him leave". There doesn't seem to be anything particularly mysterious here either.

Generally speaking, I think the floater was used simply as a plot device to show us that Frank was beginning to regain trust in his Gift and his dogged determination to find Alex. The floater was simply there, I believe, to make sure we have the impression that anyone other than Frank -- the coroner, the sheriff, the Group -- would have simply assumed Alex had been found and that was that. It was a turning point where Frank began to go beyond the Group, and in so doing, find his drive once again to do what was right. This was set up at the beginning when he was interviewed by the Group and he tried to defend his sense of self as a person doing right rather than a simple member of the Group doing what they wanted.

I also didn't think the scene with the family said anything particularly weird. It appeared as if Frank simply thought that Alex had wandered off again and might come back some day, but not as the same teenager as when he left.

So, in essence, I don't see any particular reason to think Alex was dead all along; though that is a viable interpretation, I don't believe there is anything in the episode to lead one inexorably to that position.

The one flaw in this argument, however, is the fact that Frank used the sprig of evergreen from the floater to trace the origin of where the body went in the water originally, which ended up leading to where Alex was. So who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you 100 percent!! As for the sprig of evergreen, my take on this was that Alex had probably given his jacket to some other hiker or "outdoors" person he met while still around the location he was eventually found at. He probably had another jacket-this is not too much of a reach. He was preparing to stay out for awhile, and even though he gave away his "wordly possessions" , warm clothing would be considered an essential in the environment he was in. But he was also giving to help others so maybe he gave it to someone who's jacket was insufficient. They said the floater was a "Townie", right? Maybe the dude simply took it from him, considering him an easy target..that's my take. I am convinced that he was alive and what you said summed up the rest of what I think, so there's no reason to keep blabbing.....

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

And I just did what I suggested.

For the record, here in the real Seattle it is a typical Millennium day: Cold, gray, and raining.

I find I must disagree with the apparent consensus here that Alex had, in reality, died up in the mountains and his body was the floater. For one thing, I noted that the floater was wearing a bright red coat and Alex, when found, did not. Why a disembodied-and-then-reimbodied spirit would choose to change clothes seems problematic to me.

Next, the hospital staff didn't seem to indicate anything particularly mysterious about Alex's leaving at the end, just that "Nobody saw him leave". There doesn't seem to be anything particularly mysterious here either.

Generally speaking, I think the floater was used simply as a plot device to show us that Frank was beginning to regain trust in his Gift and his dogged determination to find Alex. The floater was simply there, I believe, to make sure we have the impression that anyone other than Frank -- the coroner, the sheriff, the Group -- would have simply assumed Alex had been found and that was that. It was a turning point where Frank began to go beyond the Group, and in so doing, find his drive once again to do what was right. This was set up at the beginning when he was interviewed by the Group and he tried to defend his sense of self as a person doing right rather than a simple member of the Group doing what they wanted.

I also didn't think the scene with the family said anything particularly weird. It appeared as if Frank simply thought that Alex had wandered off again and might come back some day, but not as the same teenager as when he left.

So, in essence, I don't see any particular reason to think Alex was dead all along; though that is a viable interpretation, I don't believe there is anything in the episode to lead one inexorably to that position.

The one flaw in this argument, however, is the fact that Frank used the sprig of evergreen from the floater to trace the origin of where the body went in the water originally, which ended up leading to where Alex was. So who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I don't think you are wrong. I think you nailed it, and I agree with all of your thoughts. I also agree with someone else's view on why Frank does not get on the plane when Alex is rescued. I think it is a combination of pride, and his sense of being on his own spiritual journey. It's hard to explain, but I think he just felt like he didn't want to have any part of the people who did not believe or help him, at least not at that point. I think he also wanted to remain to further experience and reflect on the spiritual journey he had been on and all that had happened during the journey as well as with the group and Peter. I think the blanket that covers him as the plane leaves is symbolic of his spiritual journey. It reminds me of some of the work of native American's, who are obviously known for their spirituality and spiritual journeys of their own. Anyway, it really is eerie how much I agree with your post. It's like you read my thoughts. Oh, and one last thought, I really did enjoy the narration by Alex throughout the episode. I thought it was very well done and a nice touch.

[Guest blondton13]

No, I don't think you are wrong. I think you nailed it, and I agree with all of your thoughts. I also agree with someone else's view on why Frank does not get on the plane when Alex is rescued. I think it is a combination of pride, and his sense of being on his own spiritual journey. It's hard to explain, but I think he just felt like he didn't want to have any part of the people who did not believe or help him, at least not at that point. I think he also wanted to remain to further experience and reflect on the spiritual journey he had been on and all that had happened during the journey as well as with the group and Peter. I think the blanket that covers him as the plane leaves is symbolic of his spiritual journey. It reminds me of some of the work of native American's, who are obviously known for their spirituality and spiritual journeys of their own. Anyway, it really is eerie how much I agree with your post. It's like you read my thoughts. Oh, and one last thought, I really did enjoy the narration by Alex throughout the episode. I thought it was very well done and a nice touch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent interpretation. Well said!

I also agree with everything you said as well as F_Black. Smart people here!

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

PS, it is an interesting point that is brought up about Frank finding the tree twig, and setting off into the woods based on the information he finds on this type of tree. It is perplexing, and I'm not sure if it is a flaw in the writing, or just a way of keeping us guessing as to the identity of the body. I think it is possible that Frank sets out to investigate where he thinks the body entered the water and luck, coincidence, intuition, and the "lights" in the sky guide him to Alex instead. Maybe the area where John Doe goes into the water has certain qualities and/or scenic areas of interest that would lead Alex to that area for the same reasons that the other hiker was lead there. They really don't specify how long Frank was searching before finding the clues to Alex's whereabouts, but it would stand to reason that anyone who was hiking would stay close to the river, or further risk the possibility of getting permanently lost, as the air plane pilot warns frank. It could be that after a few hours of searching close to the river, he just happened across Alex's belongings, and that helped lead him to him. It is an interesting topic of discussion though.

[Guest F_Black]

Oh, and one last thought, I really did enjoy the narration by Alex throughout the episode. I thought it was very well done and a nice touch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually liked that, too. He was a good voice for it, with that sort of earnest quality and sense of wonderment at the same time. The bit at the end where he talks about (paraphrasing mightily) "Once you realize this, it becomes so obvious it's frightening. Do what charms you" gets me kind of choked up every time.

The sprig: I've been thinking of other ways he could have possibly found out where Alex was and can't think of anything, with or without using the floater. So I'm thinking it's just a part of the plot and we are supposed to presume the floater had something or other to do with Alex up there. Maybe we are to assume that they were up there together and whenever the accident occurred where Alex broke his leg also did in the floater.

It boggles the mind what answers ended up on the cutting room floor. . . .

[Guest SouthernCelt]

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe the whole reason for writing the episode in this way was to create the very analyses on the part of the viewers that are going on in this discussion?

Hey, just noticed this makes 200 for me!!!