Ms. Means And Her Quote

[ethsnafu]

Sorry for unpicking old threads but I didn't want to clutter the board with too many new ramblings....

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I must admit Lara is my thing, and she seems to get some positive press from other fans so I guess I'm not alone. I've always lingered over Lara's lines in Midnight of the Century where she notes that during her visionary encounters she feels empowered, as if nothing can stand in her way which seems in stark contrast to the dread and fear she displays before, during and after. She seems aware that her visions will ultimately drive her mad, confesses the loneliness they cause her to Catherine and waxes lyrically about the jumbled confusion of her lot in life, yet, these visions apparently cause her feelings of power and elation: would she not look slightly more ecstatic during them? It is obvious that Lara's powers are changing, becoming more precognitive that merely a portent of evil, but the angelic visions constantly appear to fill her with horror. Anyone have any musings?

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We are never told Lara's fate in S3 (a fact I really never recovered from. In all Franks altercations with 'dark Peter' surely he would have used Lara's fate at the hands of the MM group as verbal ammunition?) but I believe that she would have succumbed to the Marburg virus. It is revealed that Marburg was something akin to a biological execution of rogue psychic elements and with Lara depowered, insane and privy to more than a few MM group secrets I guess she fits the bill quite adequately (Oddly enough it was Conrad Marburg who was assigned the job of weeding out, and sadistically culling, certain Christian heretics hundreds of years ago.) I am of the firm belief that Lara's vaccine was given to Frank by the group not by Lara but that's another long winded post for another time.......

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Oh well back to the point. If anyone would like to share any insight into Lara's visions I would be in the pink.

I still miss that character even now.

Anyone for pumpkin bread and eggnog?

Till then,

ethsnafu

[Guest lonegungrrly1121]

I still miss that character even now.

Anyone for pumpkin bread and eggnog?

Till then,

ethsnafu

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

when Catherine and Frank seperated, I thought the show would never be the same. But when Lara was introduced she gave the show a breath of fresh air and added a lot to the show. I think some of the scenes with Lara and Frank (especially the odd one with Lara, Frank and Catherine) are still some of my favourite to date.

most memorable, (as meantioned) the pumpkin bread and eggnog scene (hence my avatar!!!) I think that Lara and Frank had great chemistry and an un matchable bond.

the last scene with Lara in it, in 'The time is now' where Frank says that Lara is the only woman who ever understood him always brings a tear to my eye.

seems they generally spend a year building up a female character then kill her off eh? lol love your signature by the way very cool

[ethsnafu]

Many thanks for the signature praise. I am working on a Lara art(ish) project at the moment which I hope to finish when I get some decent moi time. I may be unskilled and untalented but I'm determined....

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seems they generally spend a year building up a female character then kill her off eh?

I wonder if anyone has any insight into why she became 'one-season-Lara?' Was Kristen only every intended to serve one season? Did Chris Carter wish to distance himself so much from season two that he pulled the plug on the character or was Kristen bound to follow her husband off the show?

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On the subject of Lara answerables:

Does anyone know of a Mark Snow composition known as 'Lara's Choice'? I have searched high and low for it in all the usual avenues but as usual I'm too late or too stupid to find it (more importantly does it exist and at what point in the show is it played?)

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Final muse:

'Work with us, Lara... and we'll relieve you of your gift.' I wonder is this is a nod to the Group's experimental work with neuroscience, the same procedure they would later employ with Emma's father.....mmm.....

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Till then...

ethsnafu

[Guest lonegungrrly1121]

I wonder if anyone has any insight into why she became 'one-season-Lara?' Was Kristen only every intended to serve one season? Did Chris Carter wish to distance himself so much from season two that he pulled the plug on the character or was Kristen bound to follow her husband off the show?

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Final muse:

'Work with us, Lara... and we'll relieve you of your gift.' I wonder is this is a nod to the Group's experimental work with neuroscience, the same procedure they would later employ with Emma's father.....mmm.....

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Till then...

ethsnafu

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thing I found most shocking in the making of season 2 documentary was that Chris Carter said he hasnt even WATCHED all of seasnon 2! let alone had any imput on it.

and yes, i think that they did have the ability to relieve Lara of her gift and it was probably the same experimental work used in season 3. I always thought that they might have experimented on her with the 'brain awakening' precedure and thats why her gifts improved so much in her '7 minute acid trip'

[The Old Man]

Yeah, I was shocked too when I heard that!

Ethsnafu, no need to apologise for kicking life into old topics, we love it! There are some real gems in the mouldy old archives and its good to see them brought into the light so that other recent new Members can enjoy them or comment. I think your signature color matches the Board so well!

[ethsnafu]

There are some real gems in the mouldy old archives...

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Too right! I had a fantastic day off trawling through the archives to the sound of Mark Snow. Some of them are so well argued and so well written......

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As for Chris Carter (bows in reverence) not having watched the whole of S2: in honesty I think it shows. If Chris was dismayed with the events of S2 I'm sure there must have been a better way of evolving the show without moving in favour of something distinctly X-Files-esque. I guess that when you work with the premise that S2 'had to go' then there is little room in the new world order for characters like Lara. I still feel that dumping her for a 'dynamic, yet sceptical, FBI Agent who is drawn into a shadowy conspiracy out of involvement with her unconventional partner' was a real move away from the complex and innovative into tried and tested territory. Whatever I may feel about 'Lara vs Emma' (and to be honest I'm being unfair, I'm just loved up with Lara) she still remains one of Millennium's most captivating creations. For little old me anyway.......

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Oh well....till then....

"Open the pod bay doors, please Hal"

ethsnafu

[ethsnafu]

Sorry to drone on about Lara but Arcanamundi and Ladyblack wrote some great stuff about Frank's powers in another thread which made me consider Lara's powers and then there is no end to it........

It is fascinating to watch the evolution of Frank and utterly absorbing to watch the growth of his gift. It does seem that Frank's gift was originally intended to depict a man with such profound insight into the diseased mind (shown to us as a montage of horrific, rapid sequence images intended to represent his fathomings) does appear, on the surface of it, to become something of a psychic ability. I do remember Chris Carter proclaiming that Frank wasn't psychic (stamps foot in defiance) but sometimes it's a case of Ockham's Razor.

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Both Frank's and Lara's gifts appear to undergo quite radical shifts in both quality and content, these changes appearing to fascinate and, quite understandably, petrify them. Whilst Frank's ability 'to see what the killer sees' seems to evolve to include remote viewing, psychometry and clairvoyance whilst Lara's angelic perception becomes a violently prophetic precognition of the end times.

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On the surface of it neither character seems to question exactly what is happening to them, Lara sees angels and Frank does his thing to catch killers but there is little introspection regarding the hows and whys and whats of it all: they rightly focus on the effects their gifts have upon them but there is little in exchange with regards to what, exactly, is happening to either of them. Like most of Carter's work the viewer is able to reach his own conclusions as the characters ultimately reach theirs, and the subjective experience we undergo, it seems, is also undergone by the characters...

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Lara's confession that she approached a priest regarding her abilities speaks volumes about the points of reference she used to understand what was happening to her. Had Lara been raised agnostic she may have run, hot-foot, to the nearest Psychologist who would have no doubt helped her reached an altogether different conclusion: the age old argument of how your separate the experience of a visionary from the hallucinatory experience of someone with a psychological pathology. As Lara is indoctrinated into the MM group with its all pervasive prophetic and apocalyptic trappings the nature of her gift shifts accordingly. As her point of reference changes her gift becomes a less passive, almost biblical experience to something much more prophetic and ultimately destructive. The same appears to be true of Frank who's understanding of his gift becomes more otherworldly and less organic the further his involvement with the more mystical elements of the group. What was once perceived as an uncanny deductive reasoning does appear, in S2, to be generally regarded as more mystical in nature.

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Now it got me wondering about Lara in particular...

Lara's angel is a portent of evil, not an exact how, when or where but a spectral alarm bell. It offers her no more than a luminescent beware so here's my thing:

In 'Monster' Lara is on a plane flying headlong into an investigation into the Godless crime of child abuse - angel appears - does it strike anyone as a rather belated and obvious warning that all is not rosey where she's heading? Has Lara not already deduced that herself? Is this angel more of an omen of etheric evil rather than a portent of earthly, organic, human devilry?

Strange then that Frank should request Lara's presence on the case in 19:19 when he quips about needing her' friends in high places' but to what end? What could Lara's 'tells-you-nothing-of-any-real-value- gift do that Frank's all singing, all dancing gift could not? At this point in the story there isn't much of a precognitive nature to Lara's gift: it's still very much bright-lights-then-sh*t-yourself.

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What also of the claim that Lara's angel has retreated due to fear of a higher power? Has anyone, ever, had any theories as to what this meant?

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Of course we got to explore Frank's gift for another season but Lara is like the holy grail to me, lost, misunderstood and desperately needing some explanation.

Oh well suppose I should consider real-world things for a mo....

till then,

ethsnafu

[Guest arcanamundi]

Ahhh...at last, someone who appreciates Lara Means as much as I do!

Great stuff there, ethsnafu! I often wondered about Chris Carter's protestations of Frank Black's gift not being psychic. I mean, come on - tomato, tomahhto, am I right? The best sense I could make of Carter's distinction between 'psychic power' and whatever was the essence of Frank's gift was to consider the distinction between flashes of intuition and 'visions'. While Frank experiences flashes of sudden knowing, he doesn't actually 'see' - even with his mind's eye - what the camera has to show us. Yeah, I know....I don't quite buy that myself....

One of the few places where Frank really opens up and talks about the nature of his gift is in 'A Single Blade of Grass' where he talks to the anthropologist about it. It sounds pretty damned psychic to me the way he describes it there. Granted, that was a 2nd season episode that didn't reflect CC's idea of Frank's ability.

What also of the claim that Lara's angel has retreated due to fear of a higher power? Has anyone, ever, had any theories as to what this meant?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't have a theory at this moment, but it is interesting to compare this with Laura Palmer in 'Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me', where her own breakdown is accompanied by the abandonment by her guardian angel.

Please refresh my memory: what exactly does Lara say about the retreat of her angel?

Keep up the brilliant posts! This is who we are.

[ethsnafu]

Ahh....

Now you've REALLY got me thinking....Laura Palmer, Guardian Angels: sounds to me like more than a subtle coincidence....I've got some dusty VHS' of Twin Peaks somewhere: time for a night with some cherry pie.

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Unfortunately Lara says little regarding her angelic abandoning, what is more odd is the intimation of which higher power the following conversation refers to. Cue Miss Means (all pouty lips etc.):

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Ben: But your angel's abandoned you, hasn't he? You've been without his guidance ever since you came into this town. You fear him, but you rely on him, but he's afraid -- afraid of the presence of a higher power.

Lara: (curious) The Magdalene?

Unfortunately we don't receive any elaboration as Lara is busy with lunacy in the next few episodes but I think with enough picking and conjecture it's fair to paint your own picture. The root of this episode is sown in its title and its Gnostic flavour. Anamnesis is often rendered as memorable or remembrance in English but really gives expression to a concept for which a suitable English translation cannot be found. Remembrance implies that the person or the deed commemorated is past and absent, the word anamnesis suggests the exact opposite. It is an objective act, in and by which the person or event commemorated is actually made present and brought into the realm of the here and now. I think what is depicted within is not a remembering but a returning of the Magdalene: the so called harlot of Christianity. Why then should this prove a suitable worry to Lara's angel?

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Considering this episode is peppered with Gnosticism you can be sure that therein lies the clue. I have had a long standing fondness for the Magdalene and read with interest, many (crescent)moons ago that the Gnostics regarded her as the Mother of Angels and as an incarnation of Sophia. Unfortunately the latter day church was in the habit of denigrating her to the redeemed whore who annointed the feet of Christ with myrrh oil and her tears but she was originally inseparable from Sophia, or Hohkma or Sapienta etc, who was the primary female figure of Judeo-Christianity (indentified with doves, trees, cresent moons and cups: cue crescent moons hanging in the trees in openening credits of Anamnesis and the constant grail theme bestowed upon the Magdalene).

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One of the titles of Sophia is "Prunikos" (harlot) hence the modern day obsession with the Magdalenes's business dealings though originally its connotation was sacred, powerful and closely associated with the Holy Spirit. Point being: If the writers emersed themselves deeply in Gnosticism, as they say they did, and legends of the Magdalene then what we are witnessing is something more profound than the 'Bloodline of Jesus' myth but the coming of the Holy Spirit upon a descendant of the Mother of Angels.

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All rant and rumblings I know but a possible flavour of the vastness of this episode and the possible reason for Lara's angelic abandonment. As far as powers go they don't come much loftier than the Sophia/Holy Spirit. I could go on for aeons with regard this but I shall cut it short and spare you the bore. Needless to say what I think is happening here is an episode that depicts the return of the Holy Spirt, a spiritual quickening and the sounding of the first trumpet of the apocalypse. In short, the beginning of Armageddon. In light of that possibility who wouldn't flee in fear...........

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Till then,

ethsnafu

Edited June 2, 2005 by ethsnafu