Siren

[Guest Kolchak]

I was watching the Siren episode (season 2) last night and I just didn't "get it". My wife kept talking and asking me questions, and I was also disturbed by a phone call. So I had to watch the last 10 minutes twice, but I still couldn't figure out what was going on. What was that girl? What were the visions with the demon all about? Why did Jordan say she would save Frank's life, when he saved hers. Maybe I'm dumb, but this story-line just didn't click with me. Someone please explain this episode to me.

PS. That girl was hot. I never find girls like that, not even evil ones.

Eric

[Guest F_Black]

Vivian Wu. Yes, I concur on her hotness. See https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0943180/

She was then in a movie calle The Pillow Book with Ewan MacGregor which apparently shows of her. . .ummm. . .charms to great effect.

I remember taking a couple viewings to figure that one out, but I can't rememeber what it was exactly that I eventually figured. Just watch the whole thing again.

[Guest ModernDayMoriarty]

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over 'Siren' as it just isn't worth it. It is probably the worst episode that Morgan + Wong did for MLM and it hardly seems credible that they wrote it, it's so poor. Still, for the record...

The episode is designed to show Frank's intense disquiet over the recent actions of the MLM Group. Incidents such as those in 'Owls/Roosters' have caused Frank to question the wisdom of associating himself with the Group and with people he considered friends (the most obvious being Peter). Frank is now unsure which way to turn - he desperately wants to be with Catherine and Jordan but cannot do this unless he is sure they will be safe. His quandary is - can he afford not to trust in the Group - can he take the chance that they are right and walk away from them and their protection?

This is plaguing Frank along with money concerns, seperation anxiety etc. He needs a resolution, some firm ground. So if he had a chance to know for certain how his life would be without the Group - if it turned out a future without them was a happy one with no worries at all, would he turn his back on them and humanity for his own safety and happiness? If he found out that a life with or without the Group would result in Jordan being exposed to daemonic terrors, would he reject that path? Frank doesn't know and needs to.

So his disquiet is given form in the guise of the mysterious Siren. She comes from afar to 'help' Frank with his problems but is in fact simply a monster (she can be read as Frank's indecison over the Season that is eating away at his sanity). It is also therefore an episode that is intended to show the dangers of knowing too much about the state of the world (reference the Poloroid Stalker, Lara Means later etc). The episode attempts to explain that the MLM Group is all about faith. You *cannot* know for certain, you *cannot* wave a wand and find the answers, you simply have to accept this. Being in the Group is about acting with the firm conviction that you are doing the right thing despite not knowing BUT so too is living a regular life. Everything may not be alright but you have to take that chance or go insane.

My advice: watch something better like 'The Mikado' or 'Beware of the Dog'. I think M+W wouldn't begrudge you skipping this one in future.

[Guest Kolchak]

Thanks to ModernDayMoriarty for easing my riddled mind. I was afraid that not fully understanding this episode (Siren) would come back to haunt me in season three. I haven't seen (or maybe just can't remember) season three and didn't know if this episode would ever be referenced again.

Funny you mentioned Mikado, that is probably my favorite episode.

[Guest Jyroflux]

This is my first post here. I didn't watch Millennium when it was aired. I just recently bought all three seasons of Millennium just because of Chris Carter. (I have all nine seasons of X-Files and The Lone Gunmen, but I still haven't watched seasons 8 & 9 of X-Files or The Lone Gunmen).

I'm working my way through the second season of Millennium. Last night I watched Siren and I just didn't get it either. Perhaps Vivian Wu distracted me too much, but I don't think so. Roosters was such a great episode, so I was rather let down by Siren. I'm glad other folks didn't get it either. I think now after reading these posts, I can see what they were attempting to do with this episode, but they didn't quite get the job done. As I thought the episode over today, I suppose when Frank said he just heard what he wanted to hear, that was supposed to explain things. Maybe they needed more time to tell the story properly. Or maybe it was a conflict of the Chris Carter approach .vs the Morgan/Wong approach. I just wish it had turned out better.

[4th Horseman]

Again, this episode, as well as most of the others have been discussed at length here in this forum previously and their threads can be found simply by using the "search" field. I think the general consensus amongst TIWWA members is that Siren is not a particularly well done episode, although Vivian Wu's character, Tamara Lee, has been generally agreed upon as another representation of Legion....there are some very well done reviews/explanations, etc via the links on the millennium abyss website...

https://www.fourthhorseman.com/Abyss/Links.htm

here are a couple of attempted explanations

https://members.aol.com/ReviewsKTP/siren.html

https://www.paperstreetprod.com/rogueseye/season2/217.html

4th Horseman

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

This is my first post here. I didn't watch Millennium when it was aired. I just recently bought all three seasons of Millennium just because of Chris Carter. (I have all nine seasons of X-Files and The Lone Gunmen, but I still haven't watched seasons 8 & 9 of X-Files or The Lone Gunmen).

I'm working my way through the second season of Millennium. Last night I watched Siren and I just didn't get it either. Perhaps Vivian Wu distracted me too much, but I don't think so. Roosters was such a great episode, so I was rather let down by Siren. I'm glad other folks didn't get it either. I think now after reading these posts, I can see what they were attempting to do with this episode, but they didn't quite get the job done. As I thought the episode over today, I suppose when Frank said he just heard what he wanted to hear, that was supposed to explain things. Maybe they needed more time to tell the story properly. Or maybe it was a conflict of the Chris Carter approach .vs the Morgan/Wong approach. I just wish it had turned out better.

I forget exactly what it was that was discussed previously, but many people had problems with the episode. I personally loved it, but it was one of those stories that was a little hard to figure out completely. In a way, I think it was deliberate that the writers didn't fully explain certain things, and left them as a mystery to be pondered, and for each viewer to interpret in their own way. I would have to watch the episodes again or dig up an old post to attempt an explanation of my own, but there were a few episodes like this that I enjoyed, even with the questions they left unanswered. Siren, Beware of the Dog, and Luminary are among them, although they all have varying degrees of mystery. You have made me want to watch the episode again soon though.

[Guest Jim McLean]

I really liked this episode, and I'm not sure why people dislike it so much. It is one of the best mystical episodes for me, far better than "Beware of the Dog". Far less literal, far more interesting.

It's simply about a siren calling Frank to the rocks. I disagree - as many essays have suggested - that this creature is one of Legion's attempts to tempt Frank. The temptation causes death, its not about ever giving Frank a choice, its about killing Frank while he's experience his desire. Simple as that. I think it merely reads the victim and exposes its feelings and desires. It tempts the victim with those desires into exposure of the elements.

How does the creature save Frank? It doesn't. The Siren's "Intent" is to show Frank that he only lives if he is fulfilling his desire. The siren then gives the victim their desire, and by that intent, from the Siren's ideology, they are alive, so she saves Franks life by giving him the life he wants.. but inevitably - and what Jordan is too young to understand, that will kill him.

His daughter reads the Siren's intent, but doesn't see she's a Siren. She sees the question - to save Franks life by offering him visions that show what he desires, and what he desires stops him from dying. This means what he chooses will mean he's living. So the Siren will be saving Franks "life". But the Siren doesn't give. It lures. It lures you out with visions and keeps you out in the extremes as your mind is seduced by your desires. It tempts you to remain in the cold, but offering you what you need the most, in Franks case, its to see an existence other than the path he's taking. As he lives that other life, he slowly dies, one could call that the irony of the Siren. You live your desire, and die from it. So no, it does save his life. That's the lure, the process takes his life from him.

He, like some of the others, escape the extremes by external forces, but the lure of the desire, the intensity of the vision, draws you back and to the same fate.

The reason Frank escaped the spell was because his desire wasn't to see or experience another life, it was whether he was on the right track. He wanted an answer to his desire, not to experience it.

No it's not an easy episode to get, but once you do, I think its very rewarding. One of my favourite this season.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Jim McLean

[hippyroo]

Again, this episode, as well as most of the others have been discussed at length here in this forum previously and their threads can be found simply by using the "search" field. I think the general consensus amongst TIWWA members is that Siren is not a particularly well done episode, although Vivian Wu's character, Tamara Lee, has been generally agreed upon as another representation of Legion....there are some very well done reviews/explanations, etc via the links on the millennium abyss website...

https://www.fourthhorseman.com/Abyss/Links.htm

here are a couple of attempted explanations

https://members.aol.com/ReviewsKTP/siren.html

https://www.paperstreetprod.com/rogueseye/season2/217.html

4th Horseman

It's nice to provide the links, but you have to remember that as new people come to this site they want to explore the episodes just like others did in the past. Compare it to the board game Monopoly; it has been around for over 69 years but each generation finds it fresh and fun, because it is a well designed game. The players don't want someone to tell them that it's all been done before and they ought to just read the books written about the game. They want to play for themselves.

[Guest Jim McLean]

It's nice to provide the links, but you have to remember that as new people come to this site they want to explore the episodes just like others did in the past. Compare it to the board game Monopoly; it has been around for over 69 years but each generation finds it fresh and fun, because it is a well designed game. The players don't want someone to tell them that it's all been done before and they ought to just read the books written about the game. They want to play for themselves.

Plus, I didn't find many other threads which held much more information that this one. Mostly people's frustration! I didn't find too many threads with this episode title, and for someone who has only seen up to this episode, I don't want to poke around other threads which contain the search word! Who knows how many spoilers I may see!