Catherine

[Guest Copper1234]

Oh please expand, I don't mind! So Frank was seeing in Alex's journey the consequences of him being selfish, it was making him face up to the fact that if he goes off and does his own thing, then his family suffers for it. I wonder if he has been focused only on his point of view then? You almost want a "pre-Millennium" season, to see if he had considered giving up his work for his marriage - I know we see much of that within the series but it's like the damage had been done by then. They've tried to compromise and it didn't work. Frank's had a breakdown, but he still went back when he was offered the work. And how about if he had said from day 1, "I have a gift, nothing else is going to come first"? I would suspect then that he would have ended up working with Peter wholeheartedly, having nothing to stabilise him at all. Hmmmm, it's looking more and more as though Catherine was an absolute godsend in the end!

Thanks Lady, Love this conversation. I had to throw in Luminary in the DVD as I write this. Talking more about season 2 as a whole one of the key elements in my mind was the absense of the "yellow house" which figured so prominetly in the 1st season. THe very absense of it is palptible and represents the disingration of Catherine and Franks marriage (family). Again you offer insight I hadnt looked into, I took the episode , heck the whole series, as a solitary mans travel to deal with his demons and evil of the world, where his marriage and family life was simply the effect of his journy (its outcome that is) not a part of his journey..or of Catherines.

I wanted to compare both frank and Peter as well and there marriage..Peteres family seems stable and probably is for everything we see leads to that. Peter is stable and has his head on straight with a loving wife taking care of him. . However , Frank and his wife and family are obivously going through their own trials.. possible their weakness is actually strenghts...Catherines choice to put the marriage on hiatus may not have been a failure but actualy in the end saving their love they had for each other. They contuined to work on their marriage however oddly. where as Peter and his wife would have simply pushed on..ignoring that there was anything really wrong and in the end possible destroying the marriage..or one of the individuals in it. Hope some of this makes sense..hehehe..sort of just ranting here.

would love to know what you think

Copper

"We are meant to be here."

Luminary

Alex Ventoux

[4th Horseman]

Oh please expand, I don't mind! So Frank was seeing in Alex's journey the consequences of him being selfish, it was making him face up to the fact that if he goes off and does his own thing, then his family suffers for it. I wonder if he has been focused only on his point of view then? You almost want a "pre-Millennium" season, to see if he had considered giving up his work for his marriage - I know we see much of that within the series but it's like the damage had been done by then. They've tried to compromise and it didn't work. Frank's had a breakdown, but he still went back when he was offered the work. And how about if he had said from day 1, "I have a gift, nothing else is going to come first"? I would suspect then that he would have ended up working with Peter wholeheartedly, having nothing to stabilise him at all. Hmmmm, it's looking more and more as though Catherine was an absolute godsend in the end!

What I really missed, was the conversation between her and Peter Watt's wife - when Catherine turns up to talk to Peter and he goes off to the airport, and she says to Catherine "You have time for a cup of coffee". I thought that there would be a conversation where his wife explains Catherine's role to her, and probably have received an unqualified "No!" for her pains!

Unless of course there is more to come.......I haven't finished season 2 yet, so obviously I haven't seen the epsiode where she dies and anything after "The Pest House".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You hit the nail on the head in reference to Barbara's offering of coffee to Catherine...an opportunity missed i say to show the difference in how each of them understood their place in the grand scheme of things. If you noticed that during Catherine's talk with Peter outside prior to the invite, she exhibited a defensive posture, arms crossed in front of her, as well as the general assumption of "So, its my fault" when she asked Peter how his wife grasped the issues at hand..you bring up a very salient point, it would have been nice to have been witness to their conversation. What i want to know is whats up with the daughters wearing fake mustaches...LOL....

The issue of Catherine has been explored nearly to death here at TIWWA. Some think she was an anchor around Frank's neck, others feel as you do, that she was the lighthouse of stability in his chaotic world. Whichever of the two paths aforementioned one sojurns down, (and not to give away any of S2, although you obviously know she dies) her death left behind more questions than it did answers...

[Guest Copper1234]

"The issue of Catherine has been explored nearly to death here at TIWWA. Some think she was an anchor around Frank's neck, others feel as you do, that she was the lighthouse of stability in his chaotic world. Whichever of the two paths aforementioned one sojurns down,"

Well ..hehehehe..as for Catherine being an anchor aor a lighthouse I actually belive its both..(being married I would have to say its DEFFINLTY both) hehehehe. as in marriage its alwalys deep and very complicated..most times in one way or the other leading to the postivie for both parties whatever the outcome..being at a 60 wedding anviersarry doing the funky chicken ..or sadly in divorce..sometimes that challenges the individal to be a better person...case in point Frank...grappling with what he wanted..and what he has..is the yellow house a beacon of hope..or did it turn into something of a false hope..a carrot dangling in front of him.. Evasive and damaging...Again I belive its both..to one extant or another..

Catherine in my book was an okay character..but I loved their marriage and was impressed how that played out...But again until now I viewed it more as a back drop...an effect of the journey Frank was taking..not and active part of it

Interesting..

""So lonely you can die" is not merely a phrase"

Jose Chung

[Guest LadyBlack]

I thought that Peter's marriage was VERY much "for show" (well, season 2 anyway). From the outside, everyone was happy, it was protected from his work in the Millennium group (or protected *by*, rather) and Peter used it as an escape, assuming that his main contribution was that should the end come, his family and he would always be looked after. I find it interesting that they actually had quite a large family (I don't wish to explore any 'crude' elements here, but evidently he did spend sometime as a father) as with his knowledge of impending doom, you'd think he would be unwilling to bring lots of children into the world - possible repopulation :grin: maybe? In fact......did anyone specifically state how the end of the world would come about? I know we have many theories, I mean did anyone from the Group say, "Yes, it'll be tidal waves and earthquakes and the earth will be destroyed" or was it more "There's this plague, see, and it's going to kill everyone". From the X-Files crossover, it looked like they were going for a Biblical end but I don't know....It kind of negates Peter's usefulness as protection if they were all going to die anyway. Just kept him safe until 2000....

So in the end, although we had always had the impression it was happy, and stable, in reality possibly Peter was not really ever there, he was off doing work for the group, his wife was mostly oblivious, very much of the "I don't care what he does, just so long as I have a house and family" type, making it all a sham. I don't know, just a thought. As you say, marriages are complicated.

The Moustaches - I think that there was no particular signficance of that, it was simply to wrong foot Catherine (the writer's intention, not Peter's), in that when the door opens, she is presented with a picture of a loving, close knit family who want to emulate dad - really laying the significance on with a trowel here, but I think the writers wanted a slap in the face for her. When they spot her, it's made very obvious she's destroyed the moment, so it's kind of pointing out that she breaks up the family unit, she doesn't hold it together. As I go on, I make them have so MUCH significance :-)!

I know I have discussed Catherine before, but for me there are still things to be said, so I hope anyone who would like to talk about can join in here.

[Guest Copper1234]

You guys are right about the mustaches..three is significance in that. Again didnt see that as a sign of a braking up of the family symbol but you guys are right. The thing that always struck me about Peter is his background story about having a boy and how that intertiwined in the 2nd season.. How importnt of having a boyh was and what that meant to him and his family..it got to the point where he" refused to get his wife preganant" . Given the fact I understand 1)its a show 2) Its a metaphor and allagory for people holding onto tthings and inability to let them go..to the point of taking it persoanl. The one question i have in reality why wouldnt Peter or his wife seek help..councling about that..thats a serious blow to the ego in one fasion or another..and the very fact of accepting it as a given an letting it impact his marriage like that..without realizing that thats not normal..than again this is a show talking about evil and good in ways televison never tackled before ..so i have to give some leanency...than again though..even though Peter and his wifes love may have been geunuine for eatch other..or at least they belived it was true..perfect family..there wre obvious signs it wasnt..and they were ignoring it...taking it as a given..

And Catherine was able to see her issues and regardless if you felt she made the right or wrong descion , its obvious she delt with it and made the choices and didnt shy away from them...right or wrong..and not like Peter or his idealic family and simply accept and move on with status quoe...

[4th Horseman]

The Moustaches - I think that there was no particular signficance of that, it was simply to wrong foot Catherine (the writer's intention, not Peter's), in that when the door opens, she is presented with a picture of a loving, close knit family who want to emulate dad - really laying the significance on with a trowel here, but I think the writers wanted a slap in the face for her. When they spot her, it's made very obvious she's destroyed the moment, so it's kind of pointing out that she breaks up the family unit, she doesn't hold it together. As I go on, I make them have so MUCH significance :-)!

LadyBlack..I never meant to insinuate that there was something "evil" or wrong about the mustaches...in retrospect, i totally agree with you, now that i remember the scene. Did you notice that as each daughter left, they didn't even look, let alone say anything to Catherine? It was, as you say, a seemingly pointed slap in the face to Catherine, and a very nice disection of the intent of the scene. I would again have to agree that there was some subliminality there in indicating Catherine was more detramental than instrumental in family issues...its a shame that this was the one and only time we ever saw Peter's family..good post...