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hope this works, I tried last night and it didn't. Here it goes:

Character names and sources: Frank Black > singer of the Pixies; Lara Means for a friend and a producer (or someone who works on the show, bts) (that is to say, two separate people)... actually that's all I can think of at the moment. I know a lot of the main and guest characters were named for friends of CC, fans of the show (exemplified by our own Brian Dixon), sports figures, other TV/book/radio references, and sometimes for something that's harder to get at. I have a couple of examples, but first, and I'm sure this has been asked and answered a thousand and one times, who/what are the sources of Peter Watts, Catherine (a popular CC name, also a saint), Jordan (river/etc), Brian Roedecker, Emma Hollis, Andy McLaren, Giebelhouse, Bletcher, Barry, Lucy Butler (Lucifer), Cheryl Andrews, Mike Atkins, and other serious regulars I've forgotten. It's kind of funny for me to question these names because they're so 'normal' sounding, like he could've pulled some of them out of a phone book. (The Old Man I've got figured out though! Legion too)

But as for the guest characters, I have found that learning a definition for a character name can give much more depth to an episode. I know not all character names have 'in-jokes' but some do.

Lhasa and Rose from Omerta - the Rose I understood; as a symbol with many meanings; beauty, fraility, death, love, blood, etc. A rose is also a sign for a goddess (forget which), appropriated to the Virgin Mary. So it has a holy aspect. It took me a viewing or two just to figure out what Lhasa's name was, and it wasn't until I was sitting in Tibetan class last year that I understood Lhasa though. Lhasa is the name of the capitol of Tibet, and it means 'place of the gods'. So Rose speaks to the divine powers of the women, and Lhasa the enchantment of the place (not to make it sound like a fairytale). I read in someone's review of the episode that the reviewer's friend (and this was so long ago that I've forgotten where I found it) that Lhasa and Rose together form a version of 'Lazarus', which is also interesting.

- Mr. Crocell. (copied from another thread I wrote): so i just did a google image search of the keyword 'crocell' and was wondering why a particular image came up post-133-1114802625_thumb.jpg. So in a fit of curiosity I actually clicked some of the links, here's what I came up with: CROCELL.--The Forty-ninth Spirit is Crocell, or Crokel. He appeareth in the Form of an Angel. He is a Duke Great and Strong, speaking something Mystically of Hidden Things. He teacheth the Art of Geometry and the Liberal Sciences. He, at the Command of the Exorcist, will produce Great Noises like the Rushings of many Waters, although there be none. He warmeth Waters, and discovereth Baths. He was of the Order of Potestates, or Powers, before his fall, as he declared unto the King Solomon. He governeth 48 Legions of Spirits. His Seal is this, the which wear thou as aforesaid." https://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/lks05.htm

"Crocell is the Forty-ninth Spirit listed in the Goetia, who governs 48 Legions. He appears as an angel & knows of mystical & hidden things. He teaches geometry & liberal sciences, & can produce noises like rushing waters. He is known for warming waters & discovering baths." - https://www.deeptrancenow.com/solomonspirits.htm

...granted I don't actually know what a lot of this means, or exactly what the Goetia is...

...so i looked it up:

"Goetia (Latin, "howling") is a word used to describe a class of magick which emphasizes the summoning or calling forth of lesser spirits and demons to visible appearance, with the intention of binding the spirits to perform the magician's will." https://heru-ra-ha.tripod.com/topics/goetia.html

...that didn't really clear things up too much.

But it's an interesting revelation that Mr. Crocell's name was not just pulled out of thin air. I know Chris Carter often imbues much meaning into the names of his characters, especially the main characters, but I hadn't heard anything on this one yet. That he was a Power is interesting with PPTD, and angelic figures/demons in general, and the rushing waters thing made me think of the flood idea (Force Majeure, other religious texts), as well as next season's 7&1, though they're probably not actually related.

Now for a couple I don't understand:

- Ephraim Fabricant: Ok, I know Ephraim is a character in the Bible, and ancestor of the Tribe of Ephraim. I don't know who/what he is/does in the Bible, other than be the son of Joseph. I have no occasion and little want to read the Bible, so things like this tend to confuse/anger me, partially because different sects sometimes believe different things about different people. Fabricant means (thanks to my French verb roots) a manufacturer. So does this mean that he makes (whatever Ephraim means) occur in people, or he is made or manufactured, for the time being or always, as Legion? Can anyone clarify the Ephraim thing? Am I reading way too much into this?

- Alistair Pepper: He even has a line about why he goes by Al, because of infamy or something attached to his name. What does this mean? As far as I can tell he's not a Biblical figure. I tried googling two variants of his name (I can't remember if the second 'i' is there or not, it is) and nothing remotely related popped up. The only time I've heard this name was on a bus tour of the highlands in Scotland, the driver pointed to a house where a serial killer whose first name was Alistair had killed some people, I think at least 20 years ago. This sounded to me to be a pretty damn obtuse reference, even for 1013. Am I totally missing something, like was 'Alistair' the pseudonym for a US SK or is it from the tarot or something?

- is there a story/known story behind these names: Jack Meredith, Doug (the Tech Guy at the FBI), Jim Horn (if the character was written for James, does the name have a story?), Ardis Cohen, Joe Bangs (creeps me out just thinking of him!), Dickie Bird Perkins, Dennis Hoffman, Agent Boxer... there are more but I'm sure you've all died in your chairs of boredom. More here, I may cull additional names later: Guest Stars at imdb.com - no guarantees.

And I know the Sammael (PPTD)/Samiel (Borrowed Time) debate/discussion's been had, but it still confuses me, as does the MOTC Simon, Casper, Balthazar, and Melchior. (I know B is the one in the garden; I just need to look up the meaning of their names and correlate it with their lines... when I have some of that so-called "free time")

- nothing, who hopes this works this time, and who needs to eat some chocolate and go to bed. and take a shower. and finish reading...

believes...

this is who we are

we can't just sit back and hope for a happy ending

i couldn't swear it wasn't just an incredibly realistic simulation. not just the scenery, my whole life.

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hope this works, I tried last night and it didn't. Here it goes:

- Ephraim Fabricant: Ok, I know Ephraim is a character in the Bible, and  ancestor of the Tribe of Ephraim. I don't know who/what he is/does in the Bible, other than be the son of Joseph. I have no occasion and little want  to read the Bible, so things like this tend to confuse/anger me, partially because different sects sometimes believe different things about different people. Fabricant means (thanks to my French verb roots) a manufacturer. So does this mean that he makes (whatever Ephraim means) occur in people, or he is made or manufactured, for the time being or always, as Legion? Can anyone clarify the Ephraim thing? Am I reading way too much into this?

I remembered seeing something about a possible Fabricant link, so I had a look via google groups at alt.tv.millennium and sure enough some people had spotted a possible connection:

There was a professor Fabrikant in Canada who shot dead several people back in 1992. Apparently he was a bit of an oddity both on campus and on the internet. Several comments and links to web pages and were given; this was posted by a John Heumann, who included some very interesting points:

[begin extract/precis]

The murderer is legendary as a newsgroup kook, from before he murdered those people. And through other people, his drivel has continued to be seen on newsgroups.

1. This article, though from 2001, includes a picture of Fabrikant being removed after his spree:

https://lcn.canoe.com/infos/faitsdivers/arc...728-095540.html

Creepy.

2. This article (in French), also from 2001, describes his contributions to Internet discussion:

https://www.canoe.qc.ca/TopoNet/juil27_fabrikant-cp.html.

3. And here's how the posts got posted:

https://www.montrealmirror.com/ARCHIVES/200...2501/news4.html

4. His case was the subject of a 1999 sociology monograph, reviewed (in French) here: https://www.vigile.net/999/cornellierfabrikant.html

5. A brief account of him as newsgroup kook, in appropriate company:

https://ic.media.mit.edu/people/richlach/Po...ive/Net_Legends

1. Fabrikant murdered in 1992, and his name would be in recent memory (more recent than Ted Kozinski and Ted Bundy in today's).

2. The name would associate a doctor (in Fabrikant's case, a Ph.D, not an M.D.) with multiple murder (in Fabrikant's case, spree killing, not serial killing),

3. and the picture in news item 1 above (Fabrikant, wrapped in bloody sheets, strapped to a gurney and being carried down steps) might contribute an apt image.

4. Use of the Internet is another common element: an essay entitled "The E-Mail Murders: Reflections on 'Dead Letters,'" in the book CyberSociety: Computer-Mediated Communication and Community (Sage 1995), is devoted to him. (I wouldn't propose a connection to this article. I just suggest that it is making the connection between Fabrikant and email that is in evidence with Millennium's Fabricant. Of course, it is at least interesting that the authors should use the term "Dead Letters," the title of another Millennium episode. . . . Okay, so it's an obvious joke . . .)

The final irrelevancy, from a portion of the transcript of Fabrikant's 1993 trial (https://www.geocities.com/benny_patrick/May11.txt), from the testimony of Dr. Claude Pothel regarding his autopsy of Dr. John Saber:

[translation from French]

The right kidney is missing and we see that there is abundant haemorrhagic infiltration in the area of the right kidney which means that the right kidney had been removed recently, during the surgical intervention and the exit hole is located at the twelfth right rib, at the back.

[end extract/precis]

I haven't looked at all those web pages. But if you want to look at the thread on the newsgroup (it was posted only last year) then you can get to it direct via:

Google group alt.tv.millennium/Fabricant

As for Alistair Pepper - I know that's the spelling of his first name that appears just about everywhere (including imdb) and unfortunately the character name doesn't appear in the official credits. I've always thought of his name as being Aleister, from Aleister Crowley of "witchcraft" fame (or, rather, infamy).

Lots of good points and questions here, nothing, :clapping: and I'll read through your other points another time. I think you certainly deserve some chocolate after all that thinking!

Libby

"Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape." Terry Pratchett

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Guest arcanamundi

What fun! This is the kind of entertaining minutiae fan boards were made for!! And Millennium certainly has lots of details to tantalyze, analyze, catalyze, and makeyawise!

- Alistair Pepper: He even has a line about why he goes by Al, because of infamy or something attached to his name. What does this mean? As far as I can tell he's not a Biblical figure.

Libby's right: Alistair Pepper's name is supposed to conjure up associations to Aleister Crowley, the infamous British magus who had such a profound influence on modern occultism. The last name Pepper may be a reference to Sgt. Pepper, because Crowley appears on the cover of the Beatles' album (along with a bunch of other legendary characters).

(By the way - see my avatar? That is the Hermit card from the Aleister Crowley tarot deck)

Hey, here's another one: Ben Fisher, the guy from the Family in the episode 'Anamnesis'; I bet its a reference to the figure of the Fisher King in the Holy Grail legends, which of course figure into this episode.

Hey nothing -- you've studied Tibetan and Arabic? That is awesome! What other languages do you know? Latin? Sanskrit (similar to Tibetan?) ?

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Hmm, I must say I haven't heard of the professor Fabrikant before; frankly I kind of thougth his last name was pretty normal. Look who was wrong!

... never heard of Aleister Crowley either... both of these are probably my fault... I should look them up once I have some free time, though I may have to go into the past to find any (sorry, random Douglas Adams joke...).

arcanamundi - nice reference on Ben Fisher. I was on the IMDB link pulling out names of guest stars and didn't get much through s2 before I thought I'd already listed too many. I think it's great how even the most 'normal' sounding names can have a lot of embedded meaning, not just names like Lhasa.

Raven - like I said it took me several viewings to figure out what Lhasa's name was! It hit me in an instant when the teacher wrote that word on the board, and made perfect sense when he explained what it meant and how that definition was formed.

And as for languages, I've taken a lot of French (though I'm certanily not fluent], am in my second year of college Arabic (that's as high as it goes here, though I'm not stellar in that language) and I took a quarter-long class in Tibetan. Basically all I remember is how to write the word 'om' (three different things go into it), but I have all my copied alphabets and a few pages of words in a 'language' notebook. I can also write my (real) name in Tibetan, not that I get to use that skill too much!

Another name I've wondered about is Matthew Prine from 19:19. For some reason, I cannot remember his name. And one I forgot: Jessica Cayce, and thus her father, probably named for renoun psychic Edgar Cayce. I guess Nostradamus would've been too obvious.

-nothing, who indeed enjoyed her chocolate. and wishes she had some more. :goodnight:

42

believes...

this is who we are

we can't just sit back and hope for a happy ending

i couldn't swear it wasn't just an incredibly realistic simulation. not just the scenery, my whole life.

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(forgive me for replying to my own post)

What about the (first) names of the families? Frank, Catherine, Linda, Tom, Henry Black, (I've forgotten Tom's wife's and baby's name, if it had one); Justine and Tom Miller; Barbara, Taylor, Chelsea, and Peter's third daughter, whose name I can't remember right now. Any meaning behind them or connections between them?

Morgan and Wong use the name Clear a lot - Clear Knight in O/R, and Clear Rivers in Final Destination. Is this just one of their names like Winslow, or what?

- nothig, who hopes we're not bored with the topic yet

believes...

this is who we are

we can't just sit back and hope for a happy ending

i couldn't swear it wasn't just an incredibly realistic simulation. not just the scenery, my whole life.

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Catherine is named after Chris Carter's mother. I don't know the origin of the other family character's names. (The Watts' children were Taylor and Erin, and then Chelsea. Tom's wife was Helen.)

Clear Knight might be named for Clear Hadden, a production associate who came on board at the beginning of Season 2 (the M&W Season).

(not bored yet!)

Libby

"Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape." Terry Pratchett

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hope this works, I tried last night and it didn't. Here it goes:

Character names and sources: Frank Black > singer of the Pixies; Lara Means for a friend and a producer (or someone who works on the show, bts) (that is to say, two separate people)... actually that's all I can think of at the moment. I know a lot of the main and guest characters were named for friends of CC, fans of the show (exemplified by our own Brian Dixon), sports figures, other TV/book/radio references, and sometimes for something that's harder to get at. I have a couple of examples, but first, and I'm sure this has been asked and answered a thousand and one times, who/what are the sources of Peter Watts, Catherine (a popular CC name, also a saint), Jordan (river/etc), Brian Roedecker, Emma Hollis, Andy McLaren, Giebelhouse, Bletcher, Barry, Lucy Butler (Lucifer), Cheryl Andrews, Mike Atkins, and other serious regulars I've forgotten.  It's kind of funny for me to question these names because they're so 'normal' sounding, like he could've pulled some of them out of a phone book. (The Old Man I've got figured out though! Legion too)

But as for the guest characters, I have found that learning a definition for a character name can give much more depth to an episode. I know not all character names have 'in-jokes' but some do.

Lhasa and Rose from Omerta - the Rose I understood; as a symbol with many meanings; beauty, fraility, death, love, blood, etc. A rose is also a sign for a goddess (forget which), appropriated to the Virgin Mary. So it has a holy aspect.  It took me a viewing or two just to figure out what Lhasa's name was, and it wasn't until I was sitting in Tibetan class last year that I understood Lhasa though. Lhasa is the name of the capitol of Tibet, and it means 'place of the gods'. So Rose speaks to the divine powers of the women, and Lhasa the enchantment of the place (not to make it sound like a fairytale). I read in someone's review of the episode that the reviewer's friend (and this was so long ago that I've forgotten where I found it) that Lhasa and Rose together form a version of 'Lazarus', which is also interesting.

- Mr. Crocell. (copied from another thread I wrote): so i just did a google image search of the keyword 'crocell' and was wondering why a particular image came up post-133-1114802625_thumb.jpg.  So in a fit of curiosity I actually clicked some of the links, here's what I came up with: CROCELL.--The Forty-ninth Spirit is Crocell, or Crokel. He appeareth in the Form of an Angel. He is a Duke Great and Strong, speaking something Mystically of Hidden Things. He teacheth the Art of Geometry and the Liberal Sciences. He, at the Command of the Exorcist, will produce Great Noises like the Rushings of many Waters, although there be none. He warmeth Waters, and discovereth Baths. He was of the Order of Potestates, or Powers, before his fall, as he declared unto the King Solomon. He governeth 48 Legions of Spirits. His Seal is this, the which wear thou as aforesaid." https://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/lks05.htm

"Crocell is the Forty-ninth Spirit listed in the Goetia, who governs 48 Legions. He appears as an angel & knows of mystical & hidden things. He teaches geometry & liberal sciences, & can produce noises like rushing waters. He is known for warming waters & discovering baths." - https://www.deeptrancenow.com/solomonspirits.htm

...granted I don't actually know what a lot of this means, or exactly what the Goetia is...

...so i looked it up:

"Goetia (Latin, "howling") is a word used to describe a class of magick which emphasizes the summoning or calling forth of lesser spirits and demons to visible appearance, with the intention of binding the spirits to perform the magician's will." https://heru-ra-ha.tripod.com/topics/goetia.html

...that didn't really clear things up too much.

But it's an interesting revelation that Mr. Crocell's name was not just pulled out of thin air. I know Chris Carter often imbues much meaning into the names of his characters, especially the main characters, but I hadn't heard anything on this one yet. That he was a Power is interesting with PPTD, and angelic figures/demons in general, and the rushing waters thing made me think of the flood idea (Force Majeure, other religious texts), as well as next season's 7&1, though they're probably not actually related.

Now for a couple I don't understand:

- Ephraim Fabricant: Ok, I know Ephraim is a character in the Bible, and  ancestor of the Tribe of Ephraim. I don't know who/what he is/does in the Bible, other than be the son of Joseph. I have no occasion and little want  to read the Bible, so things like this tend to confuse/anger me, partially because different sects sometimes believe different things about different people. Fabricant means (thanks to my French verb roots) a manufacturer. So does this mean that he makes (whatever Ephraim means) occur in people, or he is made or manufactured, for the time being or always, as Legion? Can anyone clarify the Ephraim thing? Am I reading way too much into this?

- Alistair Pepper: He even has a line about why he goes by Al, because of infamy or something attached to his name. What does this mean? As far as I can tell he's not a Biblical figure. I tried googling two variants of his name (I can't remember if the second 'i' is there or not, it is) and nothing remotely related popped up. The only time I've heard this name was on a bus tour of the highlands in Scotland, the driver pointed to a house where a serial killer whose first name was Alistair had killed some people, I think at least 20 years ago. This sounded to me to be a pretty damn obtuse reference, even for 1013. Am I totally missing something, like was 'Alistair' the pseudonym for a US SK or is it from the tarot or something?

- is there a story/known story behind these names: Jack Meredith, Doug (the Tech Guy at the FBI), Jim Horn (if the character was written for James, does the name have a story?), Ardis Cohen, Joe Bangs  (creeps me out just thinking of him!),  Dickie Bird Perkins, Dennis Hoffman, Agent Boxer... there are more but I'm sure you've all died in your chairs of boredom. More here, I may cull additional names later: Guest Stars at imdb.com - no guarantees.

And I know the Sammael (PPTD)/Samiel (Borrowed Time) debate/discussion's been had, but it still confuses me, as does the MOTC Simon, Casper, Balthazar, and Melchior. (I know B is the one in the garden; I just need to look up the meaning of their names and correlate it with their lines... when I have some of that so-called "free time")

- nothing, who hopes this works this time, and who needs to eat some chocolate and go to bed. and take a shower. and finish reading...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

INTERESTING...thanks for doing research..always nice to see references that Carter throws in..the Alister reference more than likely is for Aleister Crowley....some say he was a satanist, others dont...conventional wisdom is that he was not...he was, however, heavily involved in the occult...google is a good place to find references...

"And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death. Hades followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the earth was given to him." REV 6:8

fourthhorsemananimatedsigna3rr.gif

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....Thanks for that, Libby.

Since my name is Erin, I took notice at Watts' daughter's name. (1 of the 3) I also noticed my name on a storefront at the beginning of an episode. It may have been "A Single Blade of Grass", but I'm not sure at the moment. This may have been since one of the writer's names was Erin Mahar (spelling??)

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Fans of Babylon 5 will recognise many names from that show by looking at the map of southern Brithish Columbia! I even hiked in 'Garabaldi' provincial park! :clapping::ouro:

you can pick your friends... you can pick your nose .... but you can NEVER pick your friend's nose !!

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT!

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