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Guest arcanamundi
Gosh, that is one heck of a post my friend (as always.) And it is a fascinating theory. I haven't given the poor polaroid man much consideration. It is clear from what you have written there is definately a Polaroid Man, Millennium group connection. It is time for me to have a revisit, bring on the mythology.....

Elsewhere on this board I've made a case for the Polaroid Stalker as not only a probable Millennium Group candidate, but possibly an orphan raised in a Millennium Group Home similar to the one in which the evil little girl is placed in at the end of the episode 'Monster'. Whaddaya think of them apples? :smokin:

Arcanamundi, it is a fascinating topic isn't it. Lucy is the most enigmatic MM character without exception. I  have a few, heretical ideas about her that I thought you might appreciate considering you are theologically inclined as am I. Everyone else is SO going to hate me.....

Oh yes, thank you, I did enjoy your meditation on the dark goddess as consort of the lightbringer adversarial. Some deep riffing there, ethnsnafu... :clapping:

The idea that God could be the author of what we mortal humans conceive as both good and evil, that SHe is transcendent being beyond good and evil as we understand them -- this is hinted at in your theory about Lucy Butler, and finds corroboration, I think, in Polaroid Man's rant about being the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end... at least, I think that's what he's trying to get at. I mean, isn't it?

And I'm waiting for one of you flippin' geniuses to explain the Dr. Seuss references in the mythos! :fool:

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Elsewhere on this board I've made a case for the Polaroid Stalker as not only a probable Millennium Group candidate, but possibly an orphan raised in a Millennium Group Home similar to the one in which the evil little girl is placed in at the end of the episode 'Monster'.   Whaddaya think of them apples? :smokin: 

Oh yes, thank you, I did enjoy your meditation on the dark goddess as consort of the lightbringer adversarial.   Some deep riffing there, ethnsnafu... :clapping:

The idea that God could be the author of what we mortal humans conceive as both good and evil, that SHe is  transcendent being beyond good and evil as we understand them -- this is hinted at in your theory about Lucy Butler, and finds corroboration, I think,  in Polaroid Man's rant about being the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end... at least, I think that's what he's trying to get at.   I mean, isn't it?

And I'm waiting for one of you flippin' geniuses to explain the Dr. Seuss references in the mythos!  :fool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In honor to Who We Are...i stand humbly in correction...thanksa arcanamundi my friend, i appreciate it...i have my factions correct now...

I too was intrigued by the episode "Monster" and its somewhat murky connection to "The Beginning and the End"...other than the bill and hillory references to the rabbits in the cage at the beginning, i found it extremely odd that the little girl was seemingly given over to an annoymous member of the group...was this to keep her in check? or was it to possibly harness the child's power at a later date, similar to "Anamnesis". What i found equally puzzling was that neither Frank nor Laura found it particularily disturbing that they would arrive to find a 5 year old watching, much less getting a kick out of "The Fly"...I think a psychological background would have been started right there and then if it were me..

Lastly, i am not sure if you caught this or not, but there is an interesting reference that the mom uses when she is talking to Laura...

MRS BARBAKOW: No. I know some of the other parents have had troubles

with their kids. They love Miss Penny. But Danny's taken it well. She's

always been an old soul.

Now, being only 5, why would the mother refer to her daughter as an "old soul". if i remember right isn't that a reference to a recurring, past life? Can anyone offer up an explanation?

In reference to your Dr. Seuss question, i will offer to you and all my very skeletal, sans of any proof, opinion.

i will begin by reminding you that i am not a person well versed in theology such as yourself, nor am i as intelligent as ethsnafu who posts some of the most interesting and thought stimulating ideas here. What i can only deduce in this rapidly declining 47 year old mind is that the reference, TO ME, is a possibly obtuse side reference to Corinthians 1:13...when I was a child, I acted like a child. I thought that the way I understood the Bible was the only right way. But when I grew up, I put away such childish attitudes....

I will try to explain, without the guiding light of succientness, so please bear with me..i will give you a quote and then afterwards try to explain my thoughts and reasons behind the way i feel..

here we go...first off..

Would you, could you, die for God? If I told you,

Cathy, that all that jazz you've been hearing so much about -- the

throne of God, a sea of glass, the seven veils, the seven seals, the

seven plagues, the slain lamb with seven eyes and seven thorns. Fear

God and give glory to him for the hour of his kingdom has come. And the

beast of the sea and the beast of the land cast into a lake of fire.

And then, ah, to live and reign with Christ for a thousand years of

peace and love. If I told you, Cathy, that I know that Frank will know,

it is all true, would you die, be beheaded, for your witness to the word of God?

as one who was newly recruited to the group, he would assume, initially, the place of the "child", nutured along slowly, growing on the milk of knowledge, understanding, "the right way", obviously becoming quite proficient at understanding and quoting biblical scripture...(baby steps)

"Would you, could you, would you die for God then? Because I won't. No, they asked me to but i won't. They're gonna ask Frank, and if he's willing to give his life for you, I know he's willing to give his life for God."

he is "maturing" in his development, coming to the realization that these things are pointless, useless, without merit, for remember, he said the group asked him to "die for God" but he wouldn't, quite possibly realizing that his belief is now turning to doubt, which ties right into the following..

Lamentations 3:33

If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.

Also...

Matthew 13:5-6

"Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away."

arcanamundi, my belief is that the Dr. Seuss reference used by the PM was to establish that as a "child" we look at the world thru a child's eyes, but as we get older, we become more jaded with the realization of life in general. Thats where some stay the course and some fall away..Knowledge is the death of innocence...does this make any sense??

PM's rantings about " I am the first and I am the last, I am the alpha and I am the omega, etc, are espoused in a manner in which i believe are not directed at their literal biblical meanings, but with the role he has assumed in Frank's life, now becoming veiled references to Frank and his need to find the answers he so desperately needs but cannot, even with his "gift"..no critical offender profiles, no flashes of enlightenment.

"Because I am the end -- -- the question that ends here."

A subjagation to inevitability. What was lost in the fog of uncertainty and the arcane, will now be made clear, free from the intimation of either good or evil. It will be as it shall be...

Till the Last Change...Be Done...

The Fourth Horseman...

P.S - if my post seems a bit discombobulated, i am currently being occasionally distracted by the extended version of Apocalypse Now..The Director's Cut...GREAT, GREAT movie...

C’mon baby, take a chance with us

And meet me at the back of the blue bus

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'Suffer little children to come unto Me'

Gosh! The two of you have all synapses firing at once. Some amazing stuff, I really enjoyed reading them again and again. I can't help with the Seuss references, a by-product of being English. We were brought up on Enid Blyton which has NO deeper meaning, believe me...The Polaroid Orphan eh? A concept I hadn't considered but very, very possible methinks. He has certainly been privy to group gnosis for longer than either Frank or Lara and I would argue that he has already undergone initiation: finding himself in the abyss that Lara would ultimately plunge into after hers. I also consider it fair to assume that his descent is relatively recent, his intimate insight into Frank's life would suggest that he has had high-level access to group files within the last few years, how else would he even be aware of Frank? I guess he is an example of a battle lost, a borderline psychology who did not emerge whole from the initiatory process. Another soul given over to the dragon's army. A war is being fought upon the Earth. Prodigious children are sought by forces on both sides of the spiritual divide, the recruitment and indoctrination of apocalyptic soldiers. The battle is being fought at a tender age but both Lara and Frank displayed their paranormal abilities as children, seems certain the other side is engendering demonic children too. Mark 9:20-21, "And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child."

The 'schooling' of Dani Barbakow suggests that neither side is too concerned by early indications of tendencies towards good or evil as the Group's harvesting of Dani and Lucy's maternal coveting of the innocuous Divina Saxum seems incongruent, neither child quite right for the side that seeks them. Examples of group recruitment abound throughout Millennium, the list became too lengthy so here is the abridged version: the interest in Claire McKenna, the schooling (successfully) of the abducted Lilly Unser who's adult attentions turn to prenatal science and genetic engineering, Watt's less than honest conduct during the 'Immaculate Conception' of Jannie and Sonny, the messianic child of 19:19, the 'First Temple' servant child of 'Forcing the End', the demon boy of 'Saturn Dreaming of Mercury' and the survival of the lapis-lazuli-eyed child of Exegesis despite the group's attempted extermination with Marburg. In all instances the group's intentions are shadowy, in many they know the answers before Frank, in some they take direct inaction in assisting the child. Lara clearly harbors misgivings, she withholds Claire's file from the group, unsure of their intentions for the new Magdalene and the same can be said of the Barbakow child. "But I'm suspicious about the way that they go about it. Are we being prepared or used?" - Go Lara!

The Dani Demon is particularly fascinating and more so due to the inclusion of 'The Millennium Group's Academy for Gifted Youngsters'. Their shepherding of her is particularly chilling consider their upcoming descent into rank criminality - whatever became of these children after the destruction of the group in 1999? I read, with interest, the mighty Horseman's comments regarding the groups intentions for her, I wrestle with this too. I believe that the group understands the potential malleability of its child prodigies who may only be taken to dark places due to the vast souls/entities/powers they are trying to contain within their formative minds/bodies. Frank warns that Dani is pre-hurricane, pre-demonic, it could be fair to assume that all is not set in stone. This reminds me of passages from the Infancy Gospels, the accounts of how Christ's childlike exuberance and mischievousness were feared or even destructive when augmented by vast otherworldly power.

"And as the Jews were counselling Zacchaeus, the young child laughed greatly and said: Now let those bear fruit that were barren and let them see that were blind in heart. I am come from above that I may curse them, and call them to the things that are above, even as he commanded which hath sent me for your sakes. And when the young child ceased speaking, immediately all they were made whole which had come under his curse. And no man after that durst provoke him, lest he should curse him, and he should be maimed."

In the same Gospel a boy, who was running, struck Jesus with his shoulder. 'Jesus saith unto him: Thou shalt not go thy way. And immediately he fell down and died."

Maybe the Group believe that Dani's ultimate descent into flagrant demonism is no more certain than was the infant Christ's, especially if they become her shepherd and hone and temper her.

It is true what was written about the Fly, I thought we could expect some wonderfully flippant sarcasm from Lara about Dani's TV habits. Interesting, though, that she should watch a film about a man's humanity corrupted by the introduction of something inhuman into the human matrix. Monster, is most certainly, a grim Fairy Tale.

Till then,

ethsnafu

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Guest arcanamundi
...The Polaroid Orphan eh? A concept I hadn't considered but very, very possible methinks. He has certainly been privy to group gnosis for longer than either Frank or Lara and I would argue that he has already undergone initiation: finding himself in the abyss that Lara would ultimately plunge into after hers. I also consider it fair to assume that his descent is relatively recent, his intimate insight into Frank's life would suggest that he has had high-level access to group files within the last few years, how else would he even be aware of Frank? I guess he is an example of a battle lost, a borderline psychology who did not emerge whole from the initiatory process. Another soul given over to the dragon's army. A war is being fought upon the Earth.

Or, as Dr. Frank-n-Furter said with a sheepish grin, referring to Eddie in 'Rocky Horror Picture Show': 'One from the vaults.' :wtf:

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And so perish all those who reject my love!post-1185-1119343131.gif

In that case I reckon it takes just seven days to make a Polaroid Man. How different he would have looked in gold lame speedos...

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  • 2 weeks later...

"Learn the past, watch the present, and create the future."

I watched 'A Room With No View' for the umpteenth time today and noticed something I hadn't noticed before, I have to confess to being an adherent to the 'Cult of the Well Thumbed Pause Button' so unfortunately you will have to undergo initiation to appreciate it. When Frank experiences his visions in Landon's room a pause-button-view of them reveals a rather stunning caveat. In one sequence Lucy is seen from the perspective of someone below her, the room glows with an iridescent red light that seeps in through gaps behind her and she grins malevolently before turning into her more demonic aspect, horns and all. Has anyone else noticed that this is the scene that occurs in Antipas during the 'succubus rape'? Frank's vision being played from the perspective he was to find himself him (namely under Lucy looking up), it is identical and yet, tantalisingly, would not have even been written when 'Room' was shot. Could it be a mere coincidence or did Chris Cater deliberately tie 'Antipas' and 'Room' together by elaborating upon Frank's prophecy?

Go watch it and see, I am totally convinced.

I also wandered down this path, recalling something I had read some time ago which made me think of a prison not unlike Lucy's room. The Panopticon was a design proposal by Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832), a theorist of British legal reform.

The Panopticon (meaning, literally "all-seeing") ensured that no prisoner could ever see the 'inspector' who conducted surveillance from the privileged central location within the radial configuration. The prisoner would never know that he was being watched but would be all too aware once he strayed from the rules, the mental uncertainty in itself would prove to be a crucial instrument of discipline.

French philosopher Michel Foucault described the implications of 'Panopticism' in his 1975 work Discipline & Punish: The Birth of the Prison --

"Hence the major effect of the Panopticon: to induce in the inmate a state of conscious and permanent visibility that assures the automatic functioning of power. So to arrange things that the surveillance is permanent in its effects, even if it is discontinuous in its action; that the perfection of power should tend to render its actual exercise unnecessary; that this architectural apparatus should be a machine for creating and sustaining a power relation independent of the person who exercises it; in short, that the inmates should be caught up in a power situation of which they are themselves the bearers. To achieve this, it is at once too much and too little that the prisoner should be constantly observed by an inspector: too little, for what matters is that he knows himself to be observed; too much, because he has no need in fact of being so. In view of this, Bentham laid down the principle that power should be visible and unverifiable. Visible: the inmate will constantly have before his eyes the tall outline of the central tower from which he is spied upon. Unverifiable: the inmate must never know whether he is being looked at at any one moment; but he must be sure that he may always be so. In order to make the presence or absence of the inspector unverifiable, so that the prisoners, in their cells, cannot even see a shadow, Bentham envisaged not only venetian blinds on the windows of the central observation hall, but, on the inside, partitions that intersected the hall at right angles and, in order to pass from one quarter to the other, not doors but zig-zag openings; for the slightest noise, a gleam of light, a brightness in a half-opened door would betray the presence of the guardian. The Panopticon is a machine for dissociating the see/being seen dyad: in the peripheric ring, one is totally seen, without ever seeing; in the central tower, one sees everything without ever being seen."

I absolutely love Lucy's Panopticon, the rickety varnished doors and simple locks being perfunctory as it is she who is the true vessel of imprisonment: knowing and seeing everything they do, 'loving' them when they stray from her grand design as she slowly, malignly turns them into her subjects. I also like the fact that this oubliette is connected to the outside world by underground tunnels and watching Ben's emergence from the soil is a great pastiche of Zombie flicks, the zombie being a man who's spirit has been broken by malevolent means rendering him subject to manipulation by the evil agents of Satan. In esoteric doctrine there is a shadowy world where Satan schools the unfortunate for his service, the principle city of the underground world is Shambhala. In this subterranean kingdom presides an all-powerful and All-Seeing ruler – The King of the World. Some have called him Sanat Kumara, others, mainly Christians's have seen links between Sanat Kumara and Satan. This may not be as far fetched as it seems. The Bible clearly states that Satan is the "prince" and "lord" of this world – John 12: 31 & 14: 30, Eph. 6: 12, Luke 4: 6-7, and 2 Cor. 4: 4 – and in fact has dominion over this fallen world. This King of the World, according to Eastern tradition, has a rule and influence which stretches to the surface by means of trusted emissaries who carry out specific tasks and duties – including a secret 8 million who carry out his tasks unbeknownst to us all. It would seem that Lucy's Boot Camp may be designed for simply that end. Just musings I know, but dosen't Millennium 'take you there'....

eth.snafu

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