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Guest Hazel Motes

Now that these are out on DVD and in my Netflix queue, I watched the first four episodes last night/this morning. Here's the question:

In "Gehenna" -- the guy with the night vision goggles? Is he a demon? Does he really have the wings and the eeek! and the, you know? Demon powers? Or is he just a crazy guy with night vision goggles?

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Guest ModernDayMoriarty

You're not supposed to know. The drugs that the boys take could be making them see things. The suggestion is planted in their heads by the barking of the others before they run. But then, given what we later find out... it's possible that Clement really is a demon posessing the man's body. The information about the previous Saren gas attacks suggest that the cult leader there was a demon and has 'body-hopped' into Clement to start again. I think Frank imagines that evil continues regardless of how many killers you put away, there will be more like Clement and Clement has confirmed as much with his stare. Like the Frenchman says in Pilot, you can't stop it. But I don't think Frank actually believes that evil can take form in quite the way that happens in 'Lamentation'. I think he sees Clement as a personification of evil, but only in the same way he viewed Dr Fabricant from the aforementioned episode. Frank thinks he knows what evil is and that his struggle is futile but he has to keep going to protect people. He will later discover that he really didn't understand it at all...

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Guest jamjardi

It may be useful to also recall that the same actor (Bob Wilde) that we come to know as Mabius in later episodes plays Ricardo Clemente in Genenna...or are Mabius and Clemente one and the same?

I think it's up for us to decide whether or not Clemente is a demon or if he might also be the same "person" as Mabius.

In regards to a question raised early on in this thread about the timeline of Genenna in comparison to the pilot episode, there must have been a significant amount of time elapsed, since Jordan's puppy has grown quite a bit by the time Gehenna takes place.

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Guest se7en

.....the events in the pilot ep started on Feb. 2, 1996, as seen right after the opening theme song.

~se7en

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Guest malus
It may be useful to also recall that the same actor (Bob Wilde) that we come to know as Mabius in later episodes plays Ricardo Clemente in Genenna...or are Mabius and Clemente one and the same?

I think it's up for us to decide whether or not Clemente is a demon or if he might also be the same "person" as Mabius.

i'd always thought it was very important that the same actor was clement and mabius, and that the demonic/evil form could be reproduced. i also thought it very significant that the wife of the former military man in 'paper dove' (can't remember her name) and the old woman attached to the dialysis machine at the beginning of season 3 were played by the same woman.

whether intentional or not, there is a distinct sense of 'recognition' when clement looks at frank through the one-way glass.

i'd always felt that clement was true evil's announcement to frank that 'i am here. i know who you are.' i also thought it was very important that clement said nothing at all during the episode (does mabius ever utter a word of dialogue in season 3????)

while i don't think they are supposed to be the same person, i do think they represent the same idea, evil's attempt to strip away the important parts of frank's life and get him to finally accept legion's offer. first through atkins, and finally through the group, his family, and his sanity.

j

:ouro:

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Guest se7en

.......yes, the late Bob Wilde's character, Mabius does indeed speak, in one episode, of S3 contrary to what a few may think! ...can anyone else remember which one it is? ...i just "know" that someone else has to know this!

~se7en :ouro::smokin:

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Guest malus
.......yes, the late Bob Wilde's character, Mabius does indeed speak, in one episode, of S3 contrary to what a few may think! ...can anyone else remember which one it is?  ...i just "know" that someone else has to know this!

                                                                ~se7en :ouro:  :smokin:

damn! i wish i could recall. as one of the few fans of the third season, i ought to remember this. arrrrggghhhh.

j

:ouro:

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Guest se7en
as one of the few fans of the third season, i ought to remember this.  arrrrggghhhh.

j

:ouro:

......There's many more of us than you may think my friend!-(no exageration intended!)- :smokin: ...BWAHAHAHA! :p

...in a more serious tone though i really have seen a much greater number of people with knowledge of, and as a result, appreciation, of S3, especially when the project was still going, when time had passed and fans of the show could watch them comprehensively, and often for the first time, and most, but by NO means all, were pleasently blown away when and appreciated the journey of it. just like with S1 and, for me, most of S2. ...it seems to me, though, that the majority of fans who consider S2 the only "real" season of MM are the ones who attack S3 with such enthusiasm and nastiness.

~se7en :ouro:

BTW:

....i'll give a one word hint, in case you have them on tape or got them through The MM-project "or" you just may have a kick-ass memory: "SHIP". -(i hope i didn't make this too easy! lol.)

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  • 3 months later...
Guest Gledster2000

I thought Gehenna was brilliant. I was very impressed with the way the show handled the 'brainwashing' aspect of the episode, as well as the reprcussions (sp?) on the familie's of the 'cult' people. The investigation proceeded logically, step-by-step and the extra twist was given when Frank couldn't look Clement in the eye for very long - the guy was evil and, although Frank could help capture evil, he didn't want to be in its prescence too long - he wanted to get home to his family, to be safe.

Brilliant episode.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi!

I watched it recently, on DVD, and now I think I can understand better this episode. I think it was great.

Here, in Brazil, at least in the "no-pay" TVs (I don't know how I can correctly say it in English now, sorry), we couldn't watch the pilot, they didn't aired it (I think the first season was aired three times here in the "no-pay" TV networks). I think they didn't have it (maybe just Brazil FOX) in the package they bought.

Rafael.

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