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FRANK: I was on a serial case in Minnesota. The killer's name was Ed Cuffle.

He would choose a neighborhood and he would go up to a door. If he found it

unlocked he considered that an invitation to go in and kill anybody home. He would take Polaroids of his victims which he'd send to the police. Took us months, but we caught him. He's serving triple life sentences.

BLETCHER: And that was it.

FRANK: A year later, I reach into my mailbox and I take out the mail and there's a letter addressed to me - no return. Inside are Polaroids of Catherine at the supermarket, Catherine at the school. Suddenly the psychic novocaine wore off. The numbness became paralyzing fear.

BLETCHER: You ever find who sent them?

FRANK: No. But I couldn't leave the house. Why should I go to work when I

can't even protect my own family? My little girl was a miracle. We weren't supposed to be able to conceive. I couldn't let her out of my sight.

BLETCHER: But you beat it. How?

FRANK: I was approached by a group of men who helped me understand the

nature of my facility, my gift.

BLETCHER: This Millennium Group. They really believe all that stuff?

Nostradamus and Revelations? The destruction of the world?

FRANK: They believe we can't just sit back and hope for a happy ending.

- From the transcripts to 100 PILOT - with thanks to Maria Vitale & Libby who've saved me a lot of work!

A PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE

"And what of the much discussed Polaroid Man?" - ETH.SNAFU

Can somebody perhaps give me a hand with this? I've tried searching message by message and by the search feature and after 2 hours haven't come up with any discussion threads pertaining to the Polaroid Man. I trust they're there but I just can't find them. Of course if people just want to rehash what has been said before as a part of this thread that's good with me too.

And now back to the fun stuff...

Snapshots of a Dead Man

ETH.SNAFU has said ...

"It is only when you begin to consider the Polaroid Man, Dani Barbakow and Lilly Unser, all united beneath the image of the ouroborous, that it raised the possibility that a shadowy faction may have existed either in secret or away from mainstream group awareness. ...

"And what of the much discussed Polaroid Man? This darkly deranged individual who the group actively seem to keep hidden from one of their own. There is a very clear clue that the Polaroid Man is still active in the Millennium Group until recent times (Oh, its scientific name is P1997-Vanson-West. We discovered it about six months ago,) although he has clearly plagued Frank for some time longer, with the group taking the bizarre decision to withhold his identity and intentions from the Black family. It is insane to think that a loose canon, to this degree, would be not only tolerated but assisted unless he still remains very much part of group continuity. If he is a simply a dangerously rogue element, acting without sanction and against group consensus, then why not simply hand Frank the file."

And ...

"What's unusual about P1997-Vanson-West is that both tails are visible to the naked eye. It seems that this approaching peculiarity has some effect upon the Polaroid Man, it is almost a precursor to the sudden escalation of his behavior. prompting him to place himself directly between Catherine and Frank and ultimately tear their marriage apart whilst taking revenge upon the Millennium Group."

And ...

"Much has been discussed with regards to the Polaroid Man - the darkly deluded soul who raves in biblical passages with fervour and feeling - isn't it interesting that Peter Watts does almost the same in 'The Time is Now' in an almost delusional exchange with Frank in the quarantine clinic. Did we see the beginnings of his change here or are we being given clues, hints, to his true nature and true allegiance? Had he already walked the path of sorrows as the Polaroid Man had done before and Lara was soon to do? Was Peter, as the group themselves concluded, truly born of neither faction, hence his exalted status during the 'dark-group-mythos' of Season Three?"

From 100 Pilot

See the introductory exerpt at the top

From 101 Gehenna

ATKINS: You have a second, Frank?

[Frank nods and leaves with him.]

[They go for a walk outside of the building, across to a public park where there is a water fountain. Atkins pulls from his jacket pocket a small yellow envelope and hands it to Frank.]

ATKINS: I never told anyone about these - as you asked -

[Frank removes the contents from the envelope. These are the same Polaroids he

received when he and his family first moved to Seattle, photos of Catherine and

Jordan with a Seattle cab behind them at the curb; the two of them shopping; in

Catherine's car, etc.]

ATKINS: - but I want you to know I was very upset when I opened the package and saw them. I can only imagine how you must have felt.

FRANK: Right.

ATKINS: I appreciate you confiding in me.

FRANK: You're the reason I was even able to come back to work, Mike. That

I'm a member of the Group.

ATKINS: Does Catherine have any idea yet these new photos were taken?

FRANK: (shakes his head) I never like to keep anything from her but we've

barely settled in.

ATKINS: I think you're right not to.

FRANK: Is that your threat assessment?

ATKINS: I think there's a low-risk potential in the photographer escalating from

the stalking phase. Been three years since his first mailing and he's still keeping a safe distance. He doesn't want to be discovered.

FRANK: Even though he has followed us to Seattle.

ATKINS: I would be more concerned if I thought this was really about Catherine

or your daughter.

FRANK: What do you mean?

ATKINS: He sends the photos to you, Frank. The envelope has your name on it.

What's the object of terrorism?

FRANK: Terror.

ATKINS: That's all he wants at this point.

FRANK: Then he's a success. You got anything else, Mike?

ATKINS: Film was purchased in the state of Washington. Beyond that, he's taken care not to contaminate the film or the package with anything I could pull.

FRANK: You come all the way out here just to allay my fears, Mike?

ATKINS: It would be the easiest thing in the world to go home, be with your

family, Frank. But we need you here on this one. We need your abilities.

From 121 Paper Dove

[A black sports car with a racy, noisy engine with a distinctive sound, pulls up in front of the garage. It is

immaculate and looks old. Henry walks out to the car. The driver rolls down the window. All that can be

seen of the figure in the car are his sunglasses, his sideburns which are long and broad, a moustache and

goatee. He is soft-spoken and seems to be in his early to mid 30s.]

FIGURE: Don't you owe me thanks?

HENRY: Hell, yes, old buddy - thanks. Primo. Tatania, Queen of the Fairies. Worth the rush.

FIGURE: I wanted it done while he was here in the area. He just arrived.

HENRY: I'm with ya.

FIGURE: Photos?

[Henry mimics his Polaroid, with gestures and sounds, pretending to be taking a photograph of the man.]

FIGURE: Enjoy.

[He rolls up the tinted window.]

...

The Polaroid Man Cometh

Has anyone else noticed the first season is like the oroborous? It comes full circle.

In 100 Pilot we first learn about the man who terrorizes Frank with the polaroid photos and also of Frank's previous encounters with a serial killer who sent polaroids of his victims to the police. In 101 Gehenna Atkins addresses the issue of the polaroid stalker and we're now at the neck of the snake. In 121 Paper Dove the Polaroid stalker makes his first appearance and is seen to be manipulating a serial killer - we're now at the tail. At the end of the episode he abducts Catherine - he strikes - the oroborous bites it's tail.

The second season has an oroborous as well. The relationship between Catherine and Frank is the oroborous. Frank rescues Catherine from The Polaroid Man, in the process killing him violently, and they separate. Through the season he makes the long journey back to his family (the body of the oroborous) and then the Marburg virus hits. We're now at the tail, Frank is reunited with his family at the Yellow House but then they must flee to the mountains and Catherine dies - the oroborous bites its tail.

So who is The Polaroid Man?

We know from 201 The Beginning and The End, the first episode of season 2 that he has at the least worked for The Millennium Group. So what was his task? His task as to set up Frank Black so he could be recruited by the Group.

We can be pretty sure about this because once he's in the group and in Seattle he sends photos to Frank and then we hear nothing about him other than in 101 Gehenna until 121 Paper Dove. Mike Atkins tells Frank that he's achieved his objective - terror - and that, "I think there's a low-risk potential in the photographer escalating from the stalking phase. Been three years since his first mailing and he's still keeping a safe distance. He doesn't want to be discovered."

The spectre of his presence remains with us throughout the season such as when in Lamentation Catherine checks the mail at Frank's request and there are polaroids, but they're not the ones Franks suspects they might be for a tense moment or two. So The Polaroid Man took advantage of the previous serial killer's MO and used it terrorize Frank and bring on his collapse.

This opened the door for the Group to approach him and help him through Mike Atkins (Frank: You're the reason I was even able to come back to work, Mike. That I'm a member of the Group.) And this is why Mike's prediction that the Polaroid Stalker wouldn't escalate into anything more bore out for the rest of the season until the final episode.

The Polaroid Stalker or his activities doesn't reappear until 121 Paper Dove when he's revealed to be manipulating Henry, a serial killer and gets him to kill while Frank's in town in order to attract Frank's attention. Further he tries to entice and lure Henry to go after Catherine. That Henry didn't and that he was stopped before he could results in The Polaroid Man having to take an active hand.

So what's going on here? Whether he's now rogue or not, he's got an agenda. This agenda is revealed in 201 The Beginning and the End.

Unfortunately there are no transcripts for season 2 so I can't pull the relevent quotes and I'm too busy to transcribe them myself at this time. :cry: In his crazy-talk, crazy-talk (change the subject!) he walks the abducted Catherine through the process of what Frank would be experiencing now. About how difficult it would be for Frank to find him and (now I could be wrong about this) how in the end he would have to rely on his ability to get him in the end. As we see what Frank experiences his glimpses become more inuitive and more powerful. He's no longer simply piecing things together assisted by his flashes, but his flashes become more meaningful enabling him to make larger inuitive leaps. Frank sees the house in his flashes and then tracks it down with his computer and views it by satellite.

The Polaroid Man's discussions with Henry in 121 seem pretty even and sane to me. He speaks with precision.His abduction of Catherine in 201 is carried out with precision also and he's covered his tracks well, leaving a trail not by accident but by design. So the question remains as to why. Watts tells Frank that the Polaroid Man's interest in him is due to the Millennium Group's interest in him, but he stops short of a full explanation.

My speculation is that he was still working for The Millennium Group. His new task in the Frank Black Project was to trigger the growth of Frank's ability for the oncoming work he would be needed to do. Most psychic ability manifests itself through need. Frank in the first season had it as a fledgling ability but it comes into its own in season 2, whether Frank chooses to accept it or not.

How do we know this is the Group's aim? in 202 Beware of the Dog and 204 Monster the group sends him on cases which test his abilities which they wouldn't need to do unless they wanted to find out whether his abilities had escalated.

Peter has a discussion with one of his superiors and he's told to help Frank and says that they should have put a stop to the Polaroid Stalkers activites long ago. So while it appears that the polaroid stalker is working towards the benefit of the group interest with respect to Frank he isn't the apply of at least some people's eye in the group. And this is probably where ETH.SNAFU's Fox faction comes in.

At this point I have nothing further to add without some research into the episodes so I open the floor to discussion.

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  • Elders (Moderators)
Unfortunately there are no transcripts for season 2 so I can't pull the relevent quotes and I'm too busy to transcribe them myself at this time.

Just replying to this bit - unfortunately I'm too busy with transcripts and the database project to get involved in discussions like these. :cry:

I tend to do the transcripts in batches and post them in a separate, hidden, section on the board, just so as not to flood the "new posts" listing. I've finished editing the first few of Season 2 and I'll transfer them over to the "Millennium on DVD" forum. They shouldn't show up as new posts as they're just transfers, but you'll find (I hope) enough to keep you going!

You make some good and interesting points. At least I can follow the discussion, even if I can't participate (yet).

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Hi Libby!

Thanks for your hard effort! I'm sure transcribing those episodes can't be easy. I must admit I had to laugh when I read about your not being able to participate in discussions when you've got to work on transcribing because I was lamenting in my studio about not being able to participate in discussions because of my own work.

Maxx

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FRANK:     I was on a serial case in Minnesota. The killer's name was Ed Cuffle.

He would choose a neighborhood and he would go up to a door. If he found it

unlocked he considered that an invitation to go in and kill anybody home. He would take Polaroids of his victims which he'd send to the police. Took us months, but we caught him. He's serving triple life sentences.

BLETCHER:    And that was it.

FRANK:     A year later, I reach into my mailbox and I take out the mail and there's a letter addressed to me - no return. Inside are Polaroids of Catherine at the supermarket, Catherine at the school. Suddenly the psychic novocaine wore off. The numbness became paralyzing fear.

BLETCHER:  You ever find who sent them?

FRANK:   No. But I couldn't leave the house. Why should I go to work when I

can't even protect my own family? My little girl was a miracle. We weren't supposed to be able to conceive. I couldn't let her out of my sight.

BLETCHER:      But you beat it. How?

FRANK:    I was approached by a group of men who helped me understand the

nature of my facility, my gift.

BLETCHER:      This Millennium Group. They really believe all that stuff?

Nostradamus and Revelations? The destruction of the world?

FRANK:        They believe we can't just sit back and hope for a happy ending.

- From the transcripts to 100 PILOT - with thanks to Maria Vitale & Libby who've saved me a lot of work!

A PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE

"And what of the much discussed Polaroid Man?" - ETH.SNAFU

Can somebody perhaps give me a hand with this? I've tried searching message by message and by the search feature and after 2 hours haven't come up with any discussion threads pertaining to the Polaroid Man. I trust they're there but I just can't find them. Of course if people just want to rehash what has been said before as a part of this thread that's good with me too.

And now back to the fun stuff...

Snapshots of a Dead Man

ETH.SNAFU has said ...

"It is only when you begin to consider the Polaroid Man, Dani Barbakow and Lilly Unser, all united beneath the image of the ouroborous, that it raised the possibility that a shadowy faction may have existed either in secret or away from mainstream group awareness. ...

"And what of the much discussed Polaroid Man? This darkly deranged individual who the group actively seem to keep hidden from one of their own. There is a very clear clue that the Polaroid Man is still active in the Millennium Group until recent times (Oh, its scientific name is P1997-Vanson-West. We discovered it about six months ago,)  although he has clearly plagued Frank for some time longer, with the group taking the bizarre decision to withhold his identity and intentions from the Black family. It is insane to think that a loose canon, to this degree, would be not only tolerated but assisted unless he still remains very much part of group continuity. If he is a simply a dangerously rogue element, acting without sanction and against group consensus, then why not simply hand Frank the file."

And ...

"What's unusual about P1997-Vanson-West is that both tails are visible to the naked eye. It seems that this approaching peculiarity has some effect upon the Polaroid Man, it is almost a precursor to the sudden escalation of his behavior. prompting him to place himself directly between Catherine and Frank and ultimately tear their marriage apart whilst taking revenge upon the Millennium Group."

And ...

"Much has been discussed with regards to the Polaroid Man - the darkly deluded soul who raves in biblical passages with fervour and feeling - isn't it interesting that Peter Watts does almost the same in 'The Time is Now' in an almost delusional exchange with Frank in the quarantine clinic. Did we see the beginnings of his change here or are we being given clues, hints, to his true nature and true allegiance? Had he already walked the path of sorrows as the Polaroid Man had done before and Lara was soon to do? Was Peter, as the group themselves concluded, truly born of neither faction, hence his exalted status during the 'dark-group-mythos' of Season Three?"

From 100 Pilot

See the introductory exerpt at the top

From 101 Gehenna

ATKINS:        You have a second, Frank?

[Frank nods and leaves with him.]

[They go for a walk outside of the building, across to a public park where there is a water fountain. Atkins pulls from his jacket pocket a small yellow envelope and hands it to Frank.]

ATKINS:     I never told anyone about these - as you asked -

[Frank removes the contents from the envelope. These are the same Polaroids he

received when he and his family first moved to Seattle, photos of Catherine and

Jordan with a Seattle cab behind them at the curb; the two of them shopping; in

Catherine's car, etc.]

ATKINS:        - but I want you to know I was very upset when I opened the package and saw them. I can only imagine how you must have felt.

FRANK:     Right.

ATKINS:        I appreciate you confiding in me.

FRANK:   You're the reason I was even able to come back to work, Mike. That

I'm a member of the Group.

ATKINS:     Does Catherine have any idea yet these new photos were taken?

FRANK:      (shakes his head) I never like to keep anything from her but we've

barely settled in.

ATKINS: I think you're right not to.

FRANK:   Is that your threat assessment?

ATKINS:    I think there's a low-risk potential in the photographer escalating from

the stalking phase. Been three years since his first mailing and he's still keeping a safe distance. He doesn't want to be discovered.

FRANK:       Even though he has followed us to Seattle.

ATKINS: I would be more concerned if I thought this was really about Catherine

or your daughter.

FRANK: What do you mean?

ATKINS:     He sends the photos to you, Frank. The envelope has your name on it.

What's the object of terrorism?

FRANK:      Terror.

ATKINS:        That's all he wants at this point.

FRANK:  Then he's a success. You got anything else, Mike?

ATKINS:        Film was purchased in the state of Washington. Beyond that, he's taken care not to contaminate the film or the package with anything I could pull.

FRANK:       You come all the way out here just to allay my fears, Mike?

ATKINS:    It would be the easiest thing in the world to go home, be with your

family, Frank. But we need you here on this one. We need your abilities.

From 121 Paper Dove

[A black sports car with a racy, noisy engine with a distinctive sound, pulls up in front of the garage. It is

immaculate and looks old. Henry walks out to the car. The driver rolls down the window. All that can be

seen of the figure in the car are his sunglasses, his sideburns which are long and broad, a moustache and

goatee. He is soft-spoken and seems to be in his early to mid 30s.]

FIGURE: Don't you owe me thanks?

HENRY: Hell, yes, old buddy - thanks. Primo. Tatania, Queen of the Fairies. Worth the rush.

FIGURE: I wanted it done while he was here in the area. He just arrived.

HENRY: I'm with ya.

FIGURE: Photos?

[Henry mimics his Polaroid, with gestures and sounds, pretending to be taking a photograph of the man.]

FIGURE: Enjoy.

[He rolls up the tinted window.]

...

The Polaroid Man Cometh

Has anyone else noticed the first season is like the oroborous? It comes full circle.

In 100 Pilot we first learn about the man who terrorizes Frank with the polaroid photos and also of Frank's previous encounters with a serial killer who sent polaroids of his victims to the police. In 101 Gehenna Atkins addresses the issue of the polaroid stalker and we're now at the neck of the snake. In 121 Paper Dove the Polaroid stalker makes his first appearance and is seen to be manipulating a serial killer - we're now at the tail. At the end of the episode he abducts Catherine - he strikes - the oroborous bites it's tail.

The second season has an oroborous as well. The relationship between Catherine and Frank is the oroborous. Frank rescues Catherine from The Polaroid Man, in the process killing him violently, and they separate. Through the season he makes the long journey back to his family (the body of the oroborous) and then the Marburg virus hits. We're now at the tail, Frank is reunited with his family at the Yellow House but then they must flee to the mountains and Catherine dies - the oroborous bites its tail.

So who is The Polaroid Man?

We know from 201 The Beginning and The End, the first episode of season 2 that he has at the least worked for The Millennium Group. So what was his task? His task as to set up Frank Black so he could be recruited by the Group.

We can be pretty sure about this because once he's in the group and in Seattle he sends photos to Frank  and then we hear nothing about him other than in 101 Gehenna until 121 Paper Dove. Mike Atkins tells Frank that he's achieved his objective - terror - and that, "I think there's a low-risk potential in the photographer escalating from the stalking phase. Been three years since his first mailing and he's still keeping a safe distance. He doesn't want to be discovered."

The spectre of his presence remains with us throughout the season such as when in Lamentation Catherine checks the mail at Frank's request and there are polaroids, but they're not the ones Franks suspects they might be for a tense moment or two. So The Polaroid Man took advantage of the previous serial killer's MO and used it terrorize Frank and bring on his collapse.

This opened the door for the Group to approach him and help him through Mike Atkins (Frank: You're the reason I was even able to come back to work, Mike. That I'm a member of the Group.) And this is why Mike's prediction that the Polaroid Stalker wouldn't escalate into anything more bore out for the rest of the season until the final episode.

The Polaroid Stalker or his activities doesn't reappear until 121 Paper Dove when he's revealed to be manipulating Henry, a serial killer and gets him to kill while Frank's in town in order to attract Frank's attention. Further he tries to entice and lure Henry to go after Catherine. That Henry didn't and that he was stopped before he could results in The Polaroid Man having to take an active hand.

So what's going on here? Whether he's now rogue or not, he's got an agenda. This agenda is revealed in 201 The Beginning and the End.

Unfortunately there are no transcripts for season 2 so I can't pull the relevent quotes and I'm too busy to transcribe them myself at this time.  :cry:  In his crazy-talk, crazy-talk (change the subject!) he walks the abducted Catherine through the process of what Frank would be experiencing now. About how difficult it would be for Frank to find him and (now I could be wrong about this) how in the end he would have to rely on his ability to get him in the end. As we see what Frank experiences his glimpses become more inuitive and more powerful. He's no longer simply piecing things together assisted by his flashes, but his flashes become more meaningful enabling him to make larger inuitive leaps. Frank sees the house in his flashes and then tracks it down with his computer and views it by satellite.

The Polaroid Man's discussions with Henry in 121 seem pretty even and sane to me. He speaks with precision.His abduction of Catherine in 201 is carried out with precision also and he's covered his tracks well, leaving a trail not by accident but by design. So the question remains as to why. Watts tells Frank that the Polaroid Man's interest in him is due to the Millennium Group's interest in him, but he stops short of a full explanation.

My speculation is that he was still working for The Millennium Group. His new task in the Frank Black Project was to trigger the growth of Frank's ability for the oncoming work he would be needed to do. Most psychic ability manifests itself through need. Frank in the first season had it as a fledgling ability but it comes into its own in season 2, whether Frank chooses to accept it or not.

How do we know this is the Group's aim? in 202 Beware of the Dog and 204 Monster the group sends him on cases which test his abilities which they wouldn't need to do unless they wanted to find out whether his abilities had escalated.

Peter has a discussion with one of his superiors and he's told to help Frank and says that they should have put a stop to the Polaroid Stalkers activites long ago. So while it appears that the polaroid stalker is working towards the benefit of the group interest with respect to Frank he isn't the apply of at least some people's eye in the group. And this is probably where ETH.SNAFU's Fox faction comes in.

At this point I have nothing further to add without some research into the episodes so I open the floor to discussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maxx...great, great post on a subject that deserves the insightfulness both you and ethsnafu bring. may i throw amy 2 cents in. I would have liked for there to have been an expansion on just how the PM "tested" Claire in Anamnesis. She says she was a chronicler like Catherine and believed, then she was tested by the PM and she didnt believe....what exactly happened in between? what kind of test did she endure? And also why the inclusion of both the PM and the introduction of Ben Fisher as a member of The Family, another offshoot of the Group. Could both Fisher and PM have been working for The Family? It just is not clear enough to make anything other than an assumption..

Also, in Paper Dove, i tend to think PM's stint with the Group was over, or he had rebelled against their philosophy for i just cant see any faction of the MillenniuM Group sanctioning the supply of innocent victims to a serial killer just to get Frank's interest. From the closet full of photos, it appears that PM had been supplying Henry for quite some time, so it appears that he had broken away at an earlier date, his quest now was obviously like you say to entice Henry to abduct Catherine. Yet, what i find strange also, is that not one of the photos PM hands Henry sparks any interest. You would think that if PM knew Frank like the back of his hand, and he knew just how to turn the screws on him, then he should have been able to figure out what kind of "listener" Henry liked as well.

also, as a sidebar..the origami of the paper dove that Catherine has in her possession at the airport is representative of the peace that Frank brought to the father-son relationship in Paper Dove. When Franks realizes Catherine is gone, he crushes the origami in his hand, perhaps symbolic of the peace he had with Catherine now shattered??

The Fourth Horseman..

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also, as a sidebar..the origami of the paper dove that Catherine has in her possession at the airport is representative of the peace that Frank brought to the father-son relationship in Paper Dove. When Franks realizes Catherine is gone, he crushes the origami in his hand, perhaps symbolic of the peace he had with Catherine now shattered??

The Fourth Horseman..

Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way. I just thought it was an emotional response to the gut-wrenching terror that must have overwhelmed him.

I like your interpretation better.

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I had kinda thought the same thing, Horseman. I remember even early on, Gehenna, when Mike "came all the way down here just to ally my fears?" And why? "We need you on this Frank. We need your ability. I've got a bad feeling about this case." That shows what lenghths they would go to to keep him working, no matter what. Like they were slowly trying to take him over completely, body, mind and soul.

PM was a complex character. (and so well acted!!!) It's a pity we didn't see more of him, and see more of his personality, history, and character unfurl.

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I had kinda thought the same thing, Horseman.  I remember even early on, Gehenna, when Mike "came all the way down here just to ally my fears?"  And why?  "We need you on this Frank.  We need your ability.  I've got a bad feeling about this case."  That shows what lenghths they would go to to keep him working, no matter what.  Like they were slowly trying to take him over completely, body, mind and soul.

PM was a complex character.  (and so well acted!!!)  It's a pity we didn't see more of him, and see more of his personality, history, and character unfurl.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maxx..this discussion of the Polaroid Man has been one of the most captivating posts to hit the board. There is just SO very much open for interpretation. Most of the events that have transpired have already been discussed, but i have read each thread carefully and there are some statements PM makes that have not been tossed about for consumption...first off, his knowledge of the Bible, quoting Revelation, comes from his educational papers, in particular, the Admissions and Financial Aid form which he has filled out as a "degree-seeking student"..under the question "which degree" are the handwritten words " B of Theology"....bachelors of Theology...

As we have all generally agreed upon, PM is/was a current/former group member. Asked to accept the beliefs of the group, he declined..

Because I won't. No, they asked me to but I won't.

He knows that Frank is an exceptional candidate and therefore his interest in Frank is only because the group is attempting to recruit Frank into the MillenniuM ranks...

"They're gonna ask Frank and if he's willing to give his life for you, I know he's willing to

give his life for God."

Now here are two more quotes for us to ponder...he states the following..

"until now, not a loner"...what is to be made of this...was he married? did his affiliation with the group fill a vital need of his to be needed, wanted? and what about now? is this statement a direct result of a possible recent excommunication from the group? The thing that confuses me is that he states this as Frank is overlooking what appears to be a U.S. Army form, giving his occupation as "student"...

Is he ex-military, ROTC?....

also, as he was attacking Frank with the knife, he says...

"You think you know me, Frank, But you don't them."

An obvious reference to the group, but was this a warning? Previously, he had told Catherine that he would not let Frank "die for God" (saving him from the group?)...it could be an inference that the group was masking itself as something completely different that it purported itself to be?

Peter telling Frank "That's why the Millennium Group is here, Frank. Why it always has been."

This even after Frank found out that the group had for years known about PM, and had neglected to tell him, even though they knew he was the one sending all those polaroids of Catherine...was this to assure Frank that his "surrogate" family (the group?) was in place and ready to help him deal with the very real possibility of Catherine's death at the hands of someone they had given an unofficial nod to all these years? Perhaps this is what PM meant when he said "But you dont know them"...some light on this statement may be shed by the following quote from Peter as he tries to explain their existing knowledge of the PM to Frank..

"However, the Group feels you should know that his interest in you is

because of our interest in you. That's all I can tell you right now."

Why is this all they can tell Frank? You would think that in order for the group to successfully recruit Frank it would be in their best interest to be completely open, without reservation? Yet, "Thats all i can tell you now" has the very real and possible undertones of a conspiracy, a conspiracy between the group and the PM..

for as the elder says to Peter after he finishes talking to Frank on the phone..

"He's only doing what we should have done by now. Help him."

...."done by now?" Is it possible for one to consider that a person or persons, from within the group, purposely delayed any matters that would have dealt with the issue before it came to the abduction of Catherine?

"But you don't them" - PM

is it conceivable that the group was willing to sacrifice Catherine in order to ensure that Frank would have no where else to turn and therefore finally accept a permanent position within the group, where his allegiance and his gift would be secure?

any thoughts?

Till the Last Change...Be Done..

The Fourth Horseman...

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Hi all! Sorry about being absent so much recently. Hopefully in the next couple weeks I'll be able to be a little more active. Having not seen the 3rd season yet, which is, I presume, where "The Family" comes in, can you either tell me about this schism or point the way to previous discussions? Maybe there's some clue that's been overlooked with respect to PM and the Family.

Thanks,

Maxx.

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Hi all! Sorry about being absent so much recently. Hopefully in the next couple weeks I'll be able to be a little more active. Having not seen the 3rd season yet, which is, I presume, where "The Family" comes in, can you either tell me about this schism or point the way to previous discussions? Maybe there's some clue that's been overlooked with respect to PM and the Family.

Thanks,

Maxx.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome back, Maxx! :grouphug:

Maybe I've missed something, but the only reference I know of to "The Family" was in the 3rd season episode "Monster". I'm not as familiar with this season than the first two, and am waiting for it on the official DVDs, too.

I've seen the 3rd season, once, but haven't in a while. The first 2 are my favorites.

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The Wisdom which Humans call barren is the Mother of the Angels. And the mate of the Christ is Mary Magdalen. The Lord loved Mary more than all the other disciples, and he kissed her often on her mouth.

Hi Maxx,

'The Family' (represented by the enigmatic 'Ben Fisher') appear in the Second Season episode: Anamnesis. From what Lara tells us, 'The Family' and The Group were one at some point in history until a change in ideology caused a split between the two groups. The Family is, in fact, based upon a theoretical, pseudo history regarding the life of Mary Magdalene, the survival of Christ beyond the crucifixion and the Merovingian Dynasty. The Frankish King Dagobert II, and the Merovingian dynasty from which he came, have been mythologised in the annals of both legend and modern mystical pseudo-history. The mystique that surrounds them includes attributions of saintliness, magical powers (derived from their long red hair), and even divine origin, stemming from their supposed descent from the one and only Jesus Christ. There are also alternative theories, as always, that the Merovingian Dynasty is Satan's bloodline. A tradition exists, one which finds support among the Book of Enoch and many others, that Jesus and Satan are brothers, both sons of the Most High God, and they both sat next to his throne in Heaven, on the right and left sides, respectively, prior to Satan's rebellion and the War in Heaven.

Check out this book "THE HOLY BLOOD AND THE HOLY GRAIL" by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh as it was this work that gave birth to the whole Merovingian/Christ/HolyGrail/BlackVirgin mythos that is used so extensively in Anamnesis. I read this book many years ago and I read it and read it and read it some more. Whatever you conclude it is quite, quite astonishing.

eth.snafu

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