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What Did Everyone Think?


Guest zombieromero

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WOW...............Wepwawe, that was just as good, if not better, than any review I've ever read! Would you consider writing for a Millennium fan-book?

I was trying to put together a fan's guide, but there hasn't been a lot of interest, and right now, I'm not sure if I should keep trying to do it all alone (not possible...I have neither the time, the experience, the expertise, or the technical know-how to ever get such a project done alone) or to let Graham use what reviews I have in a creation of his own.....or if I can drum up interest again.

What do you think?

This was a fantastic and well-rounded review. :clapping:

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Well, as I sat down to watch the last few episodes of S3 earlier this week, I'm glad I found this thread...while my thoughts are still clear in my mind!

Starting from 'Nostalgia', I worked my way through to the X-Files crossover on the DVD set. I do agree with another post that mentions 'Nostalgia' as being a last look at the way 'Millennium' used to be - a thought which I considered at the time - a straightforward murder/mystery with the usual amount of human interest attached, and a step back from all the intrigue and cosmic paranoia.

'Via Dolorosa' had us wondering how the season would end - I know we had been looking for more of a 'Millennium-istic' conclusion, something to wrap up all the cosmic and spiritual threads, rather than just another psycho on the loose- until it occurred to me that this was referencing a character from the start of Season 1! And yes, my poor mind started to ache as I fought to think back to episodes I had watched 6 months ago...but was relieved to see the 'to be continued' subtitle, assuring us that this story was only half-way through. But it was with trepidation that I started to watch the final episode, wondering if we would ever have any revelations at all, or just more frustrating hints and maybes?

All in all, I was very satisfied by the conclusion. No, it wasn't an ending - not in any way conclusive - but still a better conclusion than I had feared. A few of the threads did seem to be tidied up, for me at least. The Group have basically become God, or Frankensteins...their power is outweighing their ability to control it...and this ability is clearly setting in motion some form of apocalypse, the one Peter insists is impending, yet which Frank still denies (probably due to hisabiding love for his daughter)...who can forget the look of dread and terror on Frank's face at the end of 'Force Majeure' where Katherine announces her plans for Jordan's future - as he wonders if she will have any future at all in the light of what he has recently discovered...?

Watching the interviews on the DVD make it clearer why 'Goodbye to All That' didn't wrap up as much as we might have hoped for. Nobody really knew if the series would continue, and that uncertaintity has made the ending of S3 deliberately 'in the balance'. It was their intention to put some kind of closure on the character and on themes begun at the start of S1, and I respect that. Yes, it's a big 'what if' over what S4 would have brought...but in my opinion, I think they stopped production at the right place. Plotlines, characters and threads were getting just too mind-blowingly complicated over S3. Even S1 had unfinished business (Brad Dourif taking off with a busload of people into...where??) Looking at how things were going, we would have potentially ended up with an imitation 'X-Files' series, full of conspiracies, FBI backstabbing, 'Millennium Group' mad scientists and Men In Black everywhere...or else a full-on supernatural 'angels beating up demons' angle. Or some combination thereof. Which may not have been bad in itself, but certainly far removed from what Carter first wrote about in 'Pilot'. Henriksen & Carter both express doubts over how S3 panned out, so we're left wondering if Carter would have seized back some executive control over S4 to get things back on track, or just allowed it to go rampaging off into the night, like a runaway train...

The other problem being with any TV show that is written by many writers. People write their versions of characters and events, and this leaves fans banging their heads off walls trying to rationalise everything. When there is no central, creative control element, individuals go off on wild tangents that may or not better the show as a whole, introducing their own hang-ups, passions, and unique spin on characters and storylines. Then the fans are left, wondering if it's part of some 'bigger scheme' - or just lousy continuity...Dr Who fans have been doing this for decades, trying to justify and fill in the gaps between contradictory plotlines...ask any 'Who-oid' to explain the chronology of the Daleks or the Cybermen, and you may well suffer physical violence.  And that's BEFORE the new series started.........

And the X-Files episode? Well, I almost decided against watching this back-to-back with the end of S3, having heard very bad things about it. It was my Mum who persuaded me to run it, as she is a potential X-Files fan in the making..! And never having seen any X-Files in the past, I was curious, at least, to see what I'd deliberately missed over all those years...

I actually really enjoyed it. Because I went in with no high expectations about it, I was pleasantly surprised, on a purely entertainment level. Yes, it was hokey and had 'B-Movie' plot elements. No, it didn't tell very much more about Frank post-FBI or the Group - I certanly don't believe that he really succeeded in 'bringing them down', even at the expense of his own career - but it was sure nice to see how he handled the 'true' millennium, and I thought he interacted well with the other agents. Plus, he got to act like the cavalry at the end and actually save someone's life... Of course, Scully's assertion that the milleniumistic dates are purely arbitrary means it is certainly feasible for the character to return again - prophecies and apocalyptic writings from around the world put the end of the world later into the 21st century - in the 2010s, the 2030s, etc....as I recall, the Aztec prophecies and 'world cycles' give about 10-15 years to go.

But on the other hand, Jordan must be in her teens by now. Can anyone out there imagine...  'Millennium: The Next Generation' ?????

Maybe some things are best left as they are!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a great review my friend...very eloquently put...i just finished Season 3, riveted from episode 1 to the finale...i will try to keep this short, and it will be from what I saw and felt...For starters, heres what i have to say about the entire S3...why is it that my favorite episode, the one i thought represented what MillenniuM was all about, and also showed just how far the show had strayed from its origional intent was written by Carter and Spotnitz (Antipas)..coincidence? I think not...who knows more about the created product than the creator himself...

Hollis? for me, she was definately an acquired taste. The way Frank treated her in the beginning episodes would have been enough for me to have looked elsewhere for a partner if i were her, but their relationship warmed up and she actually began to fit into the parameters of the show nicely. However, her betrayal of Frank in the final two episodes was a bitter pill. The question that remains is if Frank would have been given the same option in relationship to the survival of Catherine, would he have acted in exactly the same way? would he have betrayed Peter and the Group?

Peter Watts - very hard for me to see that he became the "enemy" after all that he and Frank had been through in the previous 2 seasons, although i felt in the final episode there was an attempt by Peter to reach out to Frank for absolution, for a reconciliation of sorts, due to the fact he tells Frank he has been protecting him from the Group. That and the files he left for Frank in his car at the end of "Goodbye to All That" containing group information on both him and Jordan seem to me, at least to be a last promise, a last hurrah to their friendship which, i believe in the last episode proved stronger than their distrust of each other..

As for the "offing" of Watts? - i guess one could say, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...but i have some doubts that the body we see is actually Watts..Frank did say "I came here to put a bullet in your head, but the Group will do that for me". It flies in the face of just how careful Peter always was, how he never left anything to chance, yet we are left to assume that he was shot in his own home..is it possible that the body is someone elses? or could Peter have committed suicide? or is it what it is? Perhaps Peter's luck finally ran out...

Lucy Butler - she was far more chilling and terrifying in season 3, her charcter i believe, reaching full maturity with Antipas...the shape shifting, her tauting conversations with Frank at the mansion, the hospital scene where she threatens Jordan...but once again, we are left with unanswered questions concerning the finality of her character..she just drifted off into the sunset....unacceptable...

Jordan - her character was far more entertaining in S3 than in either S1 or S2. She seemed to realize that it was her responsibility to become the anchor of Frank's life.

McClaren - annoying, close minded boss, unfortunately a symbol all too familiar to many of us..LOL

Baldwin - good riddance, what annoys me is that he lasted longer than Bletcher, whose character was far more enjoyable...

oh, and by the way, going down the list of fantastic Season 1 characters, why wasn't Giebelhouse used more throughout S3? One of the more pleasant strolls down memory lane, where we smile slightly with the warmth of recognition, was seeing his character resurrected in "The Sounds of Snow"..

In closing, to echo Wepwawet, didn't Chris Carter say he came back to S3 because the direction MillenniuM had taken since S1 was not what he intended? Didn't Lance echo the same sentiments as well? Too many cooks spoil the broth, and that was the problem with MillenniuM...

In regards to the movie that Lance mentions in the special features section of S3...i would like to ask my fellow members a question...how is it going to be pulled off? Catherine is dead, Peter is assumed dead, Laura is either insane or dead, Bletch is gone, Giebelhouse is obviously no longer a consideration, Baldwin is dead, McClaren is still around, but i never liked his character, Hollis? please :doh:

actually the character i came to like, even though he only played a minor role was Trevor White's, the techno guy Doug Scaife who always referred to Frank as "Mr. B"..and you STILL have the enigmatic Lucy Butler...

is it enough? you decide...

The Fourth Horseman...

"And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death. Hades followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the earth was given to him." REV 6:8

fourthhorsemananimatedsigna3rr.gif

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Guest BlackJack_2000

Currently I am in the middle of season 2 and I am still enjoying the show more than ever. one of the reasons for this is because of the change in direction, by exploring and establishing a rich mythology in regards to dealing with the supernatural and exploring the origins of the Millennium Group, it really frees up the creative aspects as opposed to just dealing with a serial killer of the week, not to mention the growth of the characters involved, the estrangement between Frank and Catherine, all sorts of wonderful stories are now able to be told, its wonderful and I love it. granted there are some that are better than others, but for the most part much like with the entire series as a whole, there are far more hits than there are misses. The one thing that I enjoy especially in season 2 are the sort of arguments that I get into with my girlfriend, they're more intellectual debates really than anything else, but its fun and stiumlating as well because we basically become a sort of Mulder and Scully double act, in which she is far more logical and factual and tries to find logical reasons for certain things, while I'm more of the sort to believe in the supernatural and in conspiracies or the unexplained and things like that. it's a lot of fun.

one of the great additions to season 2 comes in the form of Lara Means played by Kristen Cloke, she's a wonderful character that really adds so much to the show and to the stories being told.

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Well, it's certianly better than the X-F series finale, but there was not a lot of closure for the series. I mean, you simply DON'T KNOW what happens. Frank and Jordan are essentially on the run. That's VERY downbeat (Jose Chung's voice echoing in my head, "Life is downbeat."). The X-F Millennium episode didn't do much either. I mean, the world didn't end at the dawn of the Millennium, OK, thanks, but what about Frank/Jordan? What happens to them next? Is the Group still after them? Does the Group ever pay for their crimes against humanity and the murder of Catherine?!? What about the whole Lucy Butler story?!? What happened to Giebelhouse? He kind of just disappeared in the middle of S3. Argh!!! WHY, OH, WHY WAS THIS SERIES CANCELLED?!?!?!?!?!? DAMNED STUPID MORONS AT FOX!!!!!!!

säki

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  • Elders (Admins)

I think so many answered would have been revealed had there been a Season Four. Do you think they would have delved into the mythology/history arc again in future seasons?

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I think so many answered would have been revealed had there been a Season Four. Do you think they would have delved into the mythology/history arc again in future seasons?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*SPOILER ALLERT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN THE FINAL EPISODE*

I agree. And yes, I think a real S4 would've wrapped things up entirely. I mean, that would've been the season that the show was really about anyway since it would be the year 2000. I am also quite convinced that the story would not have taken the route it did in the finale had it not been the last episode. The whole Peter Watts story was just given an abrupt end. It really upset me when I realized that there was no redemption for him. I remember thinking about the statement Frank Black made in S2 when he said "There are people inside, I've got to get them out." I mean, essentially he accomplished nothing for the two people he genuinely did care about (Watts/Means). Argh, I'm just talking out of my ass. Anyway, I think that the finale did NOT do the series justice. Of course, it's no fault of the writers, they probably didn't have fair warning. I BLAME THE IDIOTS AT FOX.

säki

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Wepwawet
WOW...............Wepwawe, that was just as good, if not better, than any review I've ever read! Would you consider writing for a Millennium fan-book?

I was trying to put together a fan's guide, but there hasn't been a lot of interest, and right now, I'm not sure if I should keep trying to do it all alone (not possible...I have neither the time, the experience, the expertise, or the technical know-how to ever get such a project done alone) or to let Graham use what reviews I have in a creation of his own.....or if I can drum up interest again.

What do you think?

This was a fantastic and well-rounded review. :clapping:

Wow, thanks for your kind words! And for everybody else who quoted me ...

If the offer still stands, I'd love to contribute in some small way. Writing is after all something I do in my spare time anyway. I have been kind of out of the 'Millennium' loop for the past 4-6 weeks or so, and haven't had time to look on here for ages, but I'd definitely be honoured to help out!!

And besides...it's been a while since I watched all those early episodes...I'm probably about due dusting off the old DVD box sets again. This is definitely one show I know I could stand to watch over and over...

:)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest lilblackgirl

Overall, i'm very pleased. the last ep really had me emotionally thrown. I really felt like there was some loss that i'd experienced as the scene faded through the status of the different characters. I think the music score did a really good job of capturing that last scene as well. the one thing i dont think anyone has discussed here was the actual plotline (or sideline plot) of the last ep (and if it was discussed, my apologies, i've missed that). I'm a bit confused as to the group's involvement with the two killers and their purpose behind 'creating' the second killer (and the first, if that was their role). i know it's a reinforcement in Frank's mind that they aren't people to be messed with, but that progression was inevitable. the entire third season had focused on the group as they really were and how they were made to look in a bad light. i was a little upset with Frank and Peters decline in their friendship and happy with Peter trying to make amends at the end of the show. As Lance says in the extras, the group was never fully defined, so we don't know just how sinister they are or if they are truly trying to do some good, so i never fully understood their whole purpose. if the intent of the writers was to keep us in the dark, but at bay, they succeeded with me. i'm just glad they didn't take the route of the group from XF and zap them all in an alien attack. i guess it's better to be slightly confused than overly upset at a bad wrap up. For me, the third season was much better than the second, but not as good as the first. Part of me would love to see the series come back, but i just can't imagine what they'd do. A film would be outstanding, but it'd really have to be exceptionally written so it didn't leave that bad taste in our mouths and destroy our love for the show with a horrible, 'hollywoodized' abortion of a film that they seem to put out a lot these days.

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Guest A Stranger
Overall, i'm very pleased. the last ep really had me emotionally thrown. I really felt like there was some loss that i'd experienced as the scene faded through the status of the different characters. I think the music score did a really good job of capturing that last scene as well. the one thing i dont think anyone has discussed here was the actual plotline (or sideline plot) of the last ep (and if it was discussed, my apologies, i've missed that). I'm a bit confused as to the group's involvement with the two killers and their purpose behind 'creating' the second killer (and the first, if that was their role). i know it's a reinforcement in Frank's mind that they aren't people to be messed with, but that progression was inevitable. the entire third season had focused on the group as they really were and how they were made to look in a bad light. i was a little upset with Frank and Peters decline in their friendship and happy with Peter trying to make amends at the end of the show. As Lance says in the extras, the group was never fully defined, so we don't know just how sinister they are or if they are truly trying to do some good, so i never fully understood their whole purpose. if the intent of the writers was to keep us in the dark, but at bay, they succeeded with me. i'm just glad they didn't take the route of the group from XF and zap them all in an alien attack. i guess it's better to be slightly confused than overly upset at a bad wrap up. For me, the third season was much better than the second, but not as good as the first. Part of me would love to see the series come back, but i just can't imagine what they'd do. A film would be outstanding, but it'd really have to be exceptionally written so it didn't leave that bad taste in our mouths and destroy our love for the show with a horrible, 'hollywoodized' abortion of a film that they seem to put out a lot these days.

My feeling about the Group in season three was that they were attempting to bring the Group that was created in season two back into something approaching reality. They were able to address real life concerns that seem to have been a few years ahead of their time. Terrorism (The Innocents) Germ warfare (Collateral Damage) stem cell research (Bardo Thodol) and genetic tampering (Goodbye to all That) all were hit on and seem more relevant now than ever.

My feeling is that the Group is made up of all good men, like Peter, who believe that they are doing what is right. They believe that someone has to step up. That "they can't sit around waiting for a happy ending." But in season three we see how complicated this can get. The Group was corrupted, not becaue some evil monster made them do bad things, but corrupted by the evil in themselves. One could easliy argue that though the Group did horrible things in season three, that they did it for hte good of humanity. But the recurring theme of season three is that it is no ones job but one's own self to determine the future. What will save the world is not a group deciding the fate of the world but when each man and woman step up and do what is right. Frank is consumed by anger and guilt through most of year three. We slowly see him letting up on the Group and becoming more compasionate. By "Sound of Snow" he starts to let Catherine go, by "Bardo Thodol" he starts to let the Group go and in "Seven and One" he comes to reconcile Good and Evil.

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