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Marburg Variant Prp


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ICTVdB Virus Code: 01.025.0.01.001. Virus accession number: 25001001.

Former virus code: 25.0.1.0.001; former accession number: 25010001.

Here's looking for some help actually, hoping that the great and good amongst you will help me make sense of the greatest enigma in the Millennium mytharc. The Marburg Virus.

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Revelation 15:1 "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."

Here's my thing.

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As I understand it, which means I'm on shaky ground as always, the Marburg Virus outbreak depicted in 'The Fourth Horseman' and 'The Time is Now' was to be Millennium's own Apocalyptic Plague and, potentially Millennium's swan song as Morgan and Wong were instructed to create a scenario that would serve both as a season and series finale. This doom laden prophecy did not come to fruition, however, and Chris Carter was given the insurmountable task of digging himself out of the quagmire that Millennium found itself in as a result of confusion regarding it's continuation.

The official 'line' was that since the Marburg PrP Variant killed so rapidly and effectively it did not have the time to become a pandemic or global epidemic and affect people over an extensive geographical area. What confuses me the most with regards to Marburg is the two opposing arguments of Seasons Two and Three namely that the group was both responsible and not responsible for the Marburg outbreak.

The first time Marburg is mentioned Peter is mortified and though he is aware of it there is a clear indication that not only does he have to resort to complicated means to access more information but if the group is truly responsible for the Marburg resurgence then why do they appear so terrorised by it. It is clear that they anticipated it "...after '86 they developed a vaccine that could keep the virus in check once it entered the body..." but what is not clear is that they were responsible for it, according to Peter that honour rests with the Soviet bioweapons program 'Biopreperat'.

By the time we reach the aftermath in Season Three Frank has concluded that not only was the group responsible for the Marburg outbreak but, therefor, responsible for the death of Catherine and it is claimed that the group did indeed release Marburg upon the populace in an attempt to kill a handful of psychics who 'knew too much.' Without wanting to seem harsh, 'cos I'm not harsh, it seems to me that this explanation is both absurd and implausible as without the means to protect the general populace, not to mention their loved ones, would the Millennium Group really risk a global epidemic in an attempt to kill a handful of women? Would a gunshot to the back of the head not be more effective - a trademark group execution that we see time and time again throughout Season Three. The remote-viewers certainly knew that an outbreak was immanent as they took the precaution of stealing protective bio containers from the CDC but this, in and of itself, does not necessarily mean that the Group was responsible for the outbreak they had foreseen.

Move on to 'Collateral Damage' and things become more discombobulate. Eric Swan, Gulf War Veteran and Talk Show Fan, claimed that the Millennium Group provided the US government with a bio weapon to test on American Soldiers. The testing of this weapon and the subsequent infection of troops was what gave rise to Gulf War Syndrome, Swan confirms this when he notes that the agent his warhead delivered was microplasma flavivirus, existent in Gulf War Syndrome lore. What becomes confusing is that despite Swan's personal belief as to what infected the troops the vaccination that he withholds from the infected Taylor Watts is the Marburg PrP Vaccination complete with Ouroborus label. Frank also confirms that the virus he believes Taylor has been exposed to is Marburg when he explains to Swan that what happened in the Gulf happened to his wife.

If Taylor Watts is exposed to the Marburg Virus, and her condition is most definitely cured by its antidote as well as sharing it's symptomology, how can it be explained that the condition that ravages her body develops over several days. Even when she is developing dermal lesions she is identified by Peter as having around 36 hours to live: compare this with the rapidity of the deaths in Season Two and my only conclusion is that Marburg may have been perfected. Its rapid degenerative abilities were the primary reason it did not fulfil its potential to be a world wide pandemic and by Season Three it appears it develops much more slowly, deliberately and far from being a plot 'hole' I believe that Chris Carter intended to show that research and development into Marburg was ongoing and explain some of the problems created by Morgan and Wong's apocalypse.

But, unfortunately, there is a problem with this premise that Marburg's rapid duration of onset and action was the reason for its inability to deliver a more fatal blow to the Earth's populace. Firstly, if we are to believe the events of Collateral Damage, the PrP Variant's mode of transmission is airborne which is plausible since the Marburg Heamorragic Fever still perplexes scientists with regards to it's behaviour though contamination with infectious blood or tissues are all highly suspect as sources of disease an airborne route has been mentioned, not only is this new variant airborne but it is a 'zoonose' (a disease of animals, such as rabies or psittacosis, that can be transmitted to humans) and considering it had already infected the fowl populace it is not inconceivable that Marburg could spread via birds which become infected with the virus when they have contact with contaminated nasal, respiratory, or fecal material from other infected hosts. Fecal-to-oral transmission is the most common mode of spread between birds and once it is rampaging through the bird population there is a serious threat of a worldwide pandemic.

The two factors described above, its airborne mode of transmission and its zoonotic nature, should have greatly increased its chance of survival beyond the 70-80 deaths described in Season Three not only this but Catherine must have had contact with an infected host within a very small window of opportunity before her death if the premise that 'it did not spread as it comes and kills quickly' is to be believed. Was Frank inoculated against Marburg or did he, in fact, become a host? And if it was neither he nor Jordan who infected Catherine in the cabin then who did?

Consider also that both Peter and Frank are inoculated covertly, so much so that it is intimated that the group is deliberately withholding knowledge of its vaccination programme from even those at patron level. Of course this may not be their normal modus operandi the wider 'circle' of group members could have received their vaccination in a more traditional roll-up-your-sleeve manner as the group had behaved decidedly differently towards Peter since the death of the Old Man and up to, and including, his initiation of Lara. Which brings me to a further enigma. Lara, unlike Peter or Frank, is in possession of a Marburg antidote and therefor more fully informed than either of them considering the subterfuge to which Peter had to undertake in order to ascertain even a brief understanding of its existence. Of course this may be another 'nod' to the intimation in Owls and Roosters that despite being an excommunicated candidate there appears to be clear line of communication between Lara and the shadowy Group Elder. Either way Lara's possession of the vaccine seems odd considering what Peter informs us of ...."After you showed me the medical tests you had done - which to me indicated that we had been inoculated without our being aware - I needed to know inoculated against what?" it seems Lara was not kept in the dark with regards to groups inoculation programme and given choice and free will where others were not.

Another odd notion is Peters insistence that the group could not afford a vaccine for it's families as "...there would never be enough material... to develop a universal vaccine..." currently there is no vaccine or treatment other than drugs to relieve pain for victims of Marburg but theoretical research indicates that there is hope in the form of a live vaccine that grows inside the recipient for a short period of time, generating a rapid and strong immune response. Considering that the groups access to breakthroughs has, according to Miss Means, "...enabled the Group to leap generations ahead of mainstream research..." we can assume that they have been successful in the development of a live vaccine which we, in the real world, have not. If this is, and it seems it is, the case then to make a live, attenuated vaccine, the disease-causing organism is grown under special laboratory conditions that cause it to lose its virulence, or disease-causing properties. Although live vaccines require special handling and storage in order to maintain their potency, they produce both antibody-mediated and cell-mediated immunity and generally require only one boost, or additional dose. In essence, all that would be needed would be a sample of the Marburg PrP Variant and Peter's assertion that the group would not have had sufficient material is almost certainly untrue. It is this paradox that lead me to conclude that the group seized the opportunity of the Marburg Virus to rid itself of Catherine Black, it is noted in Skull Bones when Emma comments that 43 people were murdered by the group that ".... "43 threats are now gone...Who, Agent Hollis, is prepared to do what is necessary to assure our future?" was Catherine considered to be a constant irritation in the face of the Group's desire to recruit Frank Black? So pivotal was his recruitment that in 'Collateral Damage' Peter Watts hints that the group is in a terrible state since it lost Frank.

However you look at it Marburg seems to be an enigma. It is either a Group construct or something forced upon them to which they were barely able to protect the ones they love nevermind the world at large. It was either the work of the Russian Biotechnicians or it was a erratic attempt by the Millennium Group to kill the blue-eyed remote viewers and it is either a tragic accident that Catherine Black was killed or something more 'dark'.

Here's hoping someone will help me make sense of it.

Till then,

eth.snafu.

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"The disease with which the human mind now labors is want of faith"

Righty-ho.

Firstly posting a reply to you own message is not a good sign, but, I have done the deed and immersed myself once more in 'The Innocents' and 'Exegesis' in the hope of uncovering the truth behind Millennium and Marburg but the first thing that enthraled me was the time period between these episodes and 'The Time is Now'. It has taken only five months, a relatively short space of time, for the Group to become what it became: moving away from the benign, if not murky, positivism of previous into the rank criminality of Season Three and X-Files: Millennium and whilst this is not a commentary on whether I liked or disliked the metamorphosis it does niggle me that we were never afforded an explanation. It has been concluded that the changes that were made were born from necessity, a natural evolution from Morgan and Wong's tenure but I, and probably only I, find this difficult to rationalise. Granted they gave the group, amongst other trappings, a shadowy, conspiratol tone but it was Chris Carter, not Morgan and Wong, who laid the blame for Marburg at the Group's door. The Apocalypse of Morgan and Wong was firm in its inference that the Group were not the architects of the Marburg epidemic and all that we had seen before still depicted a Group being benign, deluded maybe, but evil in the charnel house, mass graves, infanticide, genetic executioners sense? I believe that this was not born from any need to resolve or elucidate upon anything that had gone before. I am aware that some fans reacted angrily to the transformation of the Millennium Group, as powerful a character as any in the "Millennium" universe, into an evil entity and at the time Johannessen and Horton stated, "I think it's great they made the Millennium Group sinister (last season) because it works well as an embodiment of our concerns about the millennium and the weirdness out there." Now it may only be me but I am trying, believe me I am, to pinpoint those specific moments at which Season Two's sinister group was capable of anyting like what was to become. It was made impenetrable, profound, arcane and esoteric all of which throughout history have been associated with sinister machinations despite the fact that they were simply spiritual tools of transformation denied the masses but I cannot see how anything in 'Two' could lead Johannessen and Horton to believe that the group was capable of executing 43 men, women and children stripping their flesh, bleaching their bones and burying them beneath a highway.

Now none of this is a criticism. If the group is to be evil then be it evil, I like evil (in a televisual sense you understand), and nothing perturbs me about this but make us understand why they became evil and justify the assertion that all that we saw during Season Three was the culmination of the work of Morgan and Wong on Season Two and by that I don't mean 'well they were a bit shady so it stands to reason that the next step would be murdering american soldiers, children, babies etc.'

Now I have no problem with the group being the architects of Marburg Variant PrP even though it does, and it does, seem to confuse the previous Season's sure and certain depiction of a scared and ill equipped Millennium Group. What irks me is the explanation for this terror. As I have explained I cannot accept that the Group would willing, with malign intent, to release a virulent biotoxin upon humanity and their loved ones, in order to suppress a handful of women: especially in light of the fact that we are expected to believe that when this genius of an idea goes wrong they then resort to less certain, and simple, methods such as shooting them. So if we buy that idea, throw logic to the four winds, then we have to wrestle with the reasoning for the assassination plot: that these women are able to remote view the activities of the Millennium Group and, ergo, deduce what they are up to. Now we are told that these women represent 'the best there is at what they do' and to illustrate their dangerous gift of uncanny insight Emma Hollis plays a recording of such a session with '512'. In the midst of a rapture, and seemingly floating down the corridors of some secret installation, she pronounces the something near to the following "Tower....vent....tower......vent......flowers......tower" upon which Emma states that 20 words are needed before the powers that be are able to search for the installation the viewers are viewing. Just twenty apparently. Now we are earlier told that so profound are their abilities that they are able to see the 'name plates of the men around the tables' in these institutions now forgive my cynicism but "Tower....vent....tower......vent......flowers...." would indicate to me that the Millennium Group have little to fear but apparently they do, so much so that prepared to unleash a viral Armageddon.

It is undisputable that these women knew that the Marburg Virus was to be unleashed and I can accept that the Millennium Group may have considered them a viable threat, in the general sense, and thus shoot them but I cannot accept that the group would risk everything, and I mean everything, to dispose of a few psychics who have some vague insight in to the Group and possess far less of an ability that Frank who has inside information and is shouting about the Millennium Group and remaining unscathed. Whilst we are on the topic of uncertainties if anyone can explain to me why '512' requires endotracheal intubation when she is sealed in the container? Not only is she intubated consciously, which is a risky procedure even in the hands of skilled anaesthetists and requires dosing and redosing with various agents throughout, but the ET Tube isn't connected to anything and in short in serves no purpose. These tubes are used to maintain a patent airway when other, kinder, forms are contraindicated and usually when the patient requires positive pressure ventilation. What possible purpose can there be to shove a tube into the woman's lungs and if we are to believe that this is done because of the lack of oxygen within the container then would it not be wise to connect it to an oxygen delivery system? Picky I know but bad science is worse than no science at all.

The biggest cringe moment, for me, was the explanation. The sum and reason for all this. When 512 is quizzed, understandably, by Frank as to the why, why is the Millennium Group prepared to slaughter her children and her children's children? What is it that they know? She responds by explaining that since, in 1999, there are no wars or bad people anymore the Millennium Group is meddling in a world in which it sees evil but there is none, this is what they know, this is what it was all about. I'll leave that one with you.

If you bring into the equation that in the first episode Frank changes his mind as to who is behind the Marburg Virus stating both his belief that they are responsible and later that they were simply prepared but he, at least, does seem to be consistent in his belief that The Millennium Group is responsible for the Marburg Virus but, and what had not occurred to me previously, is that a belief is really all it amounts to but then the events in Collateral Damage do seem to indicate that the group was responsible, I guess I just don't want to accept that the truth is out there.

Before anyone asserts that I am being critical of Chris Carter I am not, I have everything the man has ever done, I worship at his altar. Before anyone asserts that I am trumpeting Morgan and Wong I am not, Space and Above and Beyond is rubbish. I just cannot understand how, when Season Three ends with such profound, energetic and intelligent episodes it could have started so lamely. Surely there must have been another way to explain the aftermath of 'The Time is Now - wasn't there? The explanation for why the Marburg Virus did not decimate half the planet, or more, is fine so just leave it at that and return to it later: there was no need to hurridly ascribe it to the Millennium Group and concoct the implausible reason for their unleashing of it. Anyone care to coment on the links between this story and Force Maejure? I was going to but I've taken up enough room replying to myself. lol.

eth.

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Hi again Eth.snafu!

Do not fear, I am with you. I'm just busy at the moment but will devote some time to this hopefully before the weekend is out.

Maxx

Visit Maxx's Blog - The New Millennium: The Time is Now - for the newest ideas to come from the mind of Maxx Blackwell.

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"THE ANTICHRIST DOES NOT COME AFTER A THOUSAND YEARS HAVE PASSED. WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS HAVE PASSED, THE REIGN OF THE JUST BEGINS; THEN COMES THE ANTICHRIST, TO CONFOUND THE JUST, AND THEN COMES THE FINAL BATTLE..."

- Alinardo of Grottaferrata, December 1323 (The Name of the Rose, Umberto Eco)

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Guest canadian girl

Wow, you've really done some thinking about this topic. :clapping:

When I finally get my season 3 dvds, I'll have to do some thinking myself.

From what I recall of season two's last 2 shows. the Millenium Group were aware of Marburg and seemed to expect the outbreak(ie the guys inspecting the home of the Mother's Day victims). Yet, it's unclear whether they orchestrated the outbreak or are just as horrified as the general public. Their access to the vaccine could be a hint that the group knew how and when it was coming or just point to their access to rare medical research and advancements.

You say in Season 3 that The Millenium Group is found responsible for the outbreak and that the virus was released in order to kill a few psychic women. (see, my memory is hazy.......are these the blonde women on the airplane?). How on earth could the group be sure that the virus would infect those specific women? Were they all contained somewhere so they virus could be intoduced to them and spread rapidly? Apparently not, since the virus was not contained. There were outbreaks in China and the Northwest of the USA. That method of execution is ludicrous.

If the group wanted Catharine out of the way via Marburg, how could they be sure she would be infected? Why not have her killed another way? Why risk a worldwide disaster? And why was Catharine such a threat? I know she was sceptical of the group and pulled Frank away from it toward family. Yet, that family kept Frank sane. What good is a man's gift when he's suffering a breakdown, or severe depression. grief, anger etc?

I think I'm rambling stupidly now, so I'll stop. :fool:

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Were they all contained somewhere so they virus could be introduced to them and spread rapidly? Apparently not, since the virus was not contained. There were outbreaks in China and the Northwest of the USA. That method of execution is ludicrous.

Ah Canadian Girl I hadn't even considered that, of course! I guess the only plausible explanation is that if the group were using the Marburg Variant as a means of execution then given it's widespread, and chaotic emergence the group can't have known where their targets were. There is no indication that '512', or the other Grillflame viewers, were anywhere other than in the US their story depicts their frantic efforts to leave America which only two of them are able to do - the rest laying dead or in custody. If the group was using Marburg to target them then why so randomly, and, given that they are still around 5 months after, ineffectively, and why in China? Now you've got me puzzled even more. Why does the group feel it has to resort to such outlandish, extreme and uncontrollable methods of culling them when it is seen doing this very effectively, by shooting, bombs and other means, when the Marburg Plot falls foul.

The problem seems to be in the assumption that Marburg needs an explanation. Granted it is a genetically modified variant but once it is unleashed it then becomes the providence of nature, acting at her discretion and unfathomable design. Marburg was first recognised in 1967 in Marburg and Frankfurt in Germany and Belgrade in Yugoslavia. Altogether, 25 workers were infected all of whom had contact with the blood, organs or cell-cultures derived from a batch of imported African green monkeys. Six secondary cases occurred five, in health-carers who had contact with the body fluids or blood of the primary cases. One secondary case was the wife of a patient who became ill 83 days after the onset of his illness, after he returned home, in convalescence. The patient was found to be excreting virus in his semen.

The first outbreak of Marburg disease to be recognised in Africa was in South Africa in 1975 two further episodes were reported in 1980 and 1987 amongst European tourists visiting the Kitum cave, Mt. Elgan in Kenya, and a third in Zimbabwe in 1982. 215 people - mainly in the northern province of Uige - died from the Marburg Virus between October 2004 and April 2005: all of these occurring randomly and sporadically, all of them self resolving and all of them naturally occurring biological phenomena. Regardless of the origin of the Marburg Variant PrP it is a virus, albeit an unusual one, and considering the deaths of only 80 people no more effective than it's un-tampered with relative, it would not have been implausible to conclude that the Millennium Group sought to control the Marburg Outbreak, manipulating events as even Peter Watts was to conclude was their mandate but I'm not convinced that it needed to be explained as anything other than a naturally occurring pandemic.

I'm going to have to go away and consider the spread of the Marburg outbreak now you have mentioned it. I can't help feeling that I have missed something in all of this. Wouldn't be the first time.

Don't let the bed bugs bite....

eth

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Wow, you've really done some thinking about this topic. :clapping:

When I finally get my season 3 dvds, I'll have to do some thinking myself.

From what I recall of season two's last 2 shows. the Millenium Group were aware of Marburg and seemed to expect the outbreak(ie the guys inspecting the home of the Mother's Day victims).  Yet, it's unclear whether they orchestrated the outbreak or are just as horrified as the general public.  Their access to the vaccine could be a hint that the group knew how and when it was coming or just point to their access to rare medical research and advancements.

You say in Season 3 that The Millenium Group is found responsible for the outbreak and that the virus was released in order to kill a few psychic women. (see, my memory is hazy.......are these the blonde women on the airplane?).  How on earth could the group be sure that the virus would infect those specific women?  Were they all contained somewhere so they virus could be intoduced to them and spread rapidly?  Apparently not, since the virus was not contained.  There were outbreaks in China and the Northwest of the USA.  That method of execution is ludicrous. 

If the group wanted Catharine out of the way via Marburg, how could they be sure she would be infected?  Why not  have her killed another way?  Why risk  a worldwide disaster?  And why was Catharine such a threat?  I know she was sceptical of the group and pulled Frank away from it toward family.  Yet, that family kept Frank sane.  What good is a man's gift when he's suffering a breakdown, or severe depression. grief, anger etc?

I think I'm rambling stupidly now, so I'll stop. :fool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I second your synopsis into this topic.

:smokin:

Previously on Farscape

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Guest fledgling666

wow, somebody likes to type.

here's my take on the afore mentioned events:

the group did not release the virus. it was a naturally occuring phenomenon, or, as naturally as it could have been. it was transmitted naturally to humans. the group, however, knew it was coming. they had used the psychics to see it. the psychics knew it was coming- why they had bio-containment.

the only place i've ever heard it mentioned that the group was responsible for the outbreak was during the episode of X-files that was supposed to act as a Millennium finisher. and from Frank Black, who seemed to have lost his way without his wife. season 3 was paranoid, delusional and frustrating, but only because they wouldn't let the Millennium group off the hook for the virus.

then comes Emma's dad, Lucas Barr and the whole drilling the brain thing. i guess they couldn't get the group far enough away from the blame for the virus, so they had to ruin it completely.

i know it sounds as though i have a problem with the way the show was written from season to season, but this is just not the case.

i think it took them most of season 3 to do it, but i think they finally pulled away from the quagmire surrounding the group's alleged involvement in the spread of the virus in the last few episodes. even though frank may have still believed the group was responsible, i think the audience was, at least, skeptical.

i don't remember collateral damage well enough to speak about it, although it does seem to lead to the fact that SOMEONE thinks the group is responsible for more than they are generally considered to be. why i say season 3 is wrought with paranoia. i do remember it pretty well, just not much of the dialogue.

...........

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After the war, the Kuwaiti Ministry of Health ordered that all contaminated vehicles be buried in the sand to protect Kuwaitis from the health effects of DU.

I absolutely considered the same thing, that Frank and the '512' clones were wrong in their assessment that Marburg was a planned, if not controllable, method of execution. What is 'undeniable' is that whilst their beliefs are never confirmed it is certainly 'implied' that they are right to some degree but much support for their theories is given in 'Collateral Damage' and not in the opening two episodes. What is true is that the Millennium Group is executing a programme of extermination, the deliberate and merciless culling of these psychic 'mother and child groups' and Frank is quick to point out that the first victim of the Marburg Variant was a mother and daughter not unlike the ones our story depicts, These 'seers', who are ascribed a level of psychic acuity that officialdom hangs from their every word, certainly do believe that Marburg was meant for them and in keeping with this belief go to inordinate lengths to protect themselves from it: stealing bio-containment chambers from the CDC in which to entomb themselves till the Marburg Crisis is over. This is only conjecture though and, unless you give credence to the infallibility of the seers abilities, there is no real reason to accept their, or Frank's, version of the truth. Whether or not the group was playing Marburg-meister or not it did authorise and implement the testing of the Marburg variant in gulf war troops. In 'Collateral Damage' Eric Swan is to espouse the theory that it was 'micoplasma flavivirus' that was contained in the warhead the Millennium Group gave orders to denote over US Troops. Unfortunately he is proved wrong: there are 200 species of Micoplasma. Most are innocuous and do no harm; only four or five are pathogenic. Micoplasma fermentans (incognitus strain) probably comes from the nucleus of the Brucella bacterium. This disease agent is not a bacterium and not a virus; it is a mutated form of the Brucella bacterium, combined with a visna virus, from which the mycoplasma is extracted.

The pathogenic Mycoplasma used to be very innocuous but, according to conspiracy theorists, biological warfare research conducted between 1942 and the present time has resulted in the creation of more deadly and infectious forms of Mycoplasma. Researchers extracted this mycoplasma from the Brucella bacterium and actually reduced the disease to a crystalline form. They "weaponised" it and tested it on an unsuspecting public in North America. Whatever you believe about the Gulf War Syndrome and Mycoplasma this syndrome does not present itself symptomatically in the manner experienced by Taylor Watts and described by Eric Swan: it is a syndrome, a collection of debilitating symptoms more in common with ME and certainly not something that kills with the rapidity described by Swan. The haemorraghic symptoms displayed by Taylor Watts are those displayed by Catherine, albeit with a much slower duration of onset, and it seems to be confirmed that what we are seeing is 'Marburg' when Eric uses the Marburg Variant PrP Vaccine to cure her. It goes without saying that this vaccine would have no effect upon conditions caused by the mycoplasma strain and therefore must be Marburg. What matters most is that this episode states that despite our early assumptions the Group does have Marburg at it's disposal and has, in the past, conducted controlled tests of its efficacy in the battlefield. This does seem to lend credence to the assertions of Frank and the 'viewers' and, if nothing else, shows that the Group was extremely selective about the truth.

I'm not sure what to make of the theory that Catherine was an intended casualty of the Marburg epidemic. If the idea is that she was killed in order to strengthen the Group's hold over Frank and remove the only obstacle to his full and fervent participation then you have to wrestle with the fact the group is extremely hesitant to indoctrinate Frank any further and denies him this twice. In Owls they reject Peters suggestion that both Frank and Lara be initiated it is noted that neither of them are ready and the idea is disdainly rejected and in Luminary we see Frank at the receiving end of the groups own misgivings and fears during his 'group review' so harsh are they that he is to leave the room and the group for the umpteenth time that season. During Season Three it is Emma Hollis they pursue and not Frank just as it was Lara that was initiated whilst Peter was still talking of Frank's initiation in doubtful terms: I am sure and certain that the group coveted his gift but the man behind the messages was not ideal: far too strident, idealistic, impassioned and vast to be contained and controlled as they so desired.

Oh well, enough.

the group did not release the virus. it was a naturally occuring phenomenon, or, as naturally as it could have been. it was transmitted naturally to humans. the group, however, knew it was coming. they had used the psychics to see it. the psychics knew it was coming- why they had bio-containment.
I'm going to go with this theory just because it is so much better than what we are asked to believe.

I think I'm getting a rash actually...........

eth.

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Guest lonegungrrly1121
During Season Three it is Emma Hollis they pursue and not Frank just as it was Lara that was initiated whilst Peter was still talking of Frank's initiation in doubtful terms: I am sure and certain that the group coveted his gift but the man behind the messages was not ideal: far too strident, idealistic, impassioned and vast to be contained and controlled as they so desired.

Oh well, enough.

I'm going to go with this theory just because it is so much better than what we are asked to believe.

I think I'm getting a rash actually...........

eth.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

once again ethsnafu, what a great thread, I'm digging out my box sets right now! I just thought I would offer my POV on this last point..

I always assumed that the group wanted Emma, A) because she was 'trained' by frank and in certain scenes, it is implied that she is gathering a similar ability (In 'Skull and Bones' if you watch the scene where Emma finds out what happened to Cheryl Andrews, she is only looking at the file of her, but actually has a series of vivid 'visions' showing the audience her death... she blinks and recoils when she 'see's Cheryl get shot... then in a very frank-like manner she finds her skull... Peter Watts sees all of this and can see her growing ability) also because B- Peter never gave up on recruiting frank, and in the same episode (I think) Peter tells someone in the MM group that he is still 'working' on Frank. I believe that Peter thinks that by recruiting Emma, he might also win Frank back.

Then as the season goes along, and Emma gets drawn in and Frank pulls further away, Peter's plot changes. He has seen now that Emma is now a worthy candidate (one of the best scenes is in Barbo Thodol, when she chaces Peter down a corridor shouting "hey! bald Man!" LOL... ) the point being that she made it through without Frank's help. and passed Peter's test. So then Peter see's that Frank must not only be removed from the FBI, but from Emma's life, if he has any chance of recruiting Emma.

woow. sorry if that went slightly off topic :bigsmile: carry on.... did anyone else get the impression that Emma also had a gift, and Frank was unknowingly enhancing it?

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By Jove,

I'm going to have to go back and 'review' Emma Hollis, all this had passed me by. I hadn't given any thought to the possibility that Emma has a gift of her own though there is some real kooky stuff going off in Seven and One with the Emma/Legion suicide that did make me consider if she was larger than the sum of her parts. I feel another day in front of the TV about to happen.........

Of course the group want Frank: I'm just not sure they wanted him in a 'killing Catherine to get him' sort of way or badly enough to risk a global catastrophe when they were prepared to take his initiation and candidacy slowly and surely: they are not in any hurry as far as I can see to want him anywhere other than where they already had him.

Emma's gift......let's get started on the DVD's

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