Does Profiling Work?

[Archer]

Interesting points here!

Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually happened!!!

Do you remember?

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:

a. Superman

b. Jay Lenno

c. Harry Potter

d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred

by:

a. Olga Korbut

b. Sitting Bull

c. Arnold Schwarzenegger

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:

a. Lost Norwegians

b. Elvis

c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4.During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:

a. John Dillinger

b. The King of Sweden

c. The Boy Scouts

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:

a. A pizza delivery boy

b. Pee Wee Herman

c. Geraldo Rivera

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:

a. The Smurfs

b. Davy Jones

c. The Little Mermaid

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7.In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:

a. Captain Kidd

b. Charles Lindberg

c. Mother Teresa

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8.In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

a. Scooby Doo

b. The Tooth Fairy

c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:

a. Richard Simmons

b. Grandma Moses

c. Michael Jordan

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10.In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:

a. Mr. Rogers

b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems

c. The World Wrestling Federation

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11.On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.Thousands of people were killed by:

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd

b. The Supreme Court of Florida

c. Mr. Bean

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12.In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:

a. Enron

b. The Lutheran Church

c. The NFL

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:

a. Bonnie and Clyde

b. Captain Kangaroo

c. Billy Graham

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with properidentification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.

Let's send this to as many people as we can so that the Gloria Aldreds and other dunder-headed attorneys along with Federal Justices that want to thwart common sense, feel doubly ashamed of themselves - if they have any such sense. As the writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it, "Stupid is as stupid does." Come on people wake up!!!

Keep this going. Pass it on to everyone in your address book. Our Country and our troops need our support!

[Guest 19:19]

it's crap. profiling works and everyone knows it. if it stops 1 death then it would be all worth it.

[Archer]

it's crap. profiling works and everyone knows it. if it stops 1 death then it would be all worth it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is so true.

[hippyroo]

Yeah, I read that one a few years ago... very true.

The thing is, in the US, the only imoral thing you can do is tell someone they are wrong. Anyone that speaks in absolute terms is deemed stupid, mean, crazy; and of course, NAZI-like. Pointing out that these crimes are commited by a certain type of people and that we should watch them closely means you might decide to watch other groups as well. So, if I let you say these people are dangerous and should be watched, then you might also say that I might be dangerous and should be watched. It seems the motivation for the currant "morality" of the western mind is I want to do what I want to do, so we should let everyone do what they want to do EXCEPT tell us we are wrong.

Guess I am rambling. I first got a glimpse of this idea in the book CLOSING OF THE AMERICAN MIND by Allan Bloom.

[Archer]

Yeah, I read that one a few years ago... very true.

The thing is, in the US, the only imoral thing you can do is tell someone they are wrong. Anyone that speaks in absolute terms is deemed stupid, mean, crazy; and of course, NAZI-like.  Pointing out that these crimes are commited by a certain type of people and that we should watch them closely means you might decide to watch other groups as well.  So, if I let you say these people are dangerous and should be watched, then you might also say that I might be dangerous and should be watched.  It seems the motivation for the currant "morality" of the western mind is I want to do what I want to do, so we should let everyone do what they want to do EXCEPT tell us we are wrong.

Guess I am rambling.  I first got a glimpse of this idea in the book CLOSING OF THE AMERICAN MIND by Allan Bloom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was just truly sad. LOL

Are you sure the book was not titled Closing the mind. LOL No offence though Hippyroo :grin:

[Maxx Blackwell]

Yeah, I read that one a few years ago... very true.

The thing is, in the US, the only imoral thing you can do is tell someone they are wrong. Anyone that speaks in absolute terms is deemed stupid, mean, crazy; and of course, NAZI-like.  Pointing out that these crimes are commited by a certain type of people and that we should watch them closely means you might decide to watch other groups as well.  So, if I let you say these people are dangerous and should be watched, then you might also say that I might be dangerous and should be watched.  It seems the motivation for the currant "morality" of the western mind is I want to do what I want to do, so we should let everyone do what they want to do EXCEPT tell us we are wrong.

Guess I am rambling.  I first got a glimpse of this idea in the book CLOSING OF THE AMERICAN MIND by Allan Bloom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Hippyroo!

You raise an important point that we need to be aware of. Yes, the truth may be and probably is that it was Muslim extremists behind the various crimes listed here. BUT you can't blame an entire group for the activities of a subgroup. I applaud the Muslim people that come forward and denounce the activities of those who engage in terrorist acts and tell us that their faith's not about that.

The kind of mind that is willing to make these sort of generalization is associated with heart full of hate. And I'd like to think that we of this board are above that. I mean the tables can easily be turned also. I'm sure that a similar poll could be created to paint the Americans in the same light.

Oppression of Blacks

Oppression of Native Americans

Oppression of the people of Iraq

Oppression of the people of Afganistan

And before you come back with protests of "we liberated Iraq and Afganistan" which is true also, if you look at it from the Muslim extremist point of view they're being oppressed now. I assume you can catch the drift of what I'm saying here. What we need to realize is that it's all a matter of perspective.

Writer's Digest Books has a couple books on the topic of Criminal Profiling that cover the topic of terrorists and why they do what they do. It's worth the read. Basically terrorists believe what they are doing is right because nobody hears them and they have to revert to most extreme actions out of necessity so that others will hear and see.

President Bush called Iraq, Iran and North Korea an Axis of Evil. Rest assured that there are those in other countries that consider America, Great Britain and Canada an axis of evil too.

And if we're right then they must be too because the difference in philosophies between us and them when you come down to it is a matter of perspective.

The writer of this poll isn't talking about profiling either. He's cleverly left the word racial off, well, because that would be politically incorrect. Lets look at what he says...

They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with properidentification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.

Obviously he believes that Muslim males have an identifiable face.That they look Muslim...

Remember the American Taliban - John Walker Lindh? When whomever wrote the poll that started this post I wonder if he was picturing an American whiteboy who converted to the Muslim faith or did he/she have a more middle-eastern face in mind? Who would have guessed that a caucasian American would be among those captured in Afganistan?

What the writer seems to have neglected is that Muslims extremists between the ages of 17 and 40 can be of any background and be from any country in the world. Just like Christians. Just like Jews. Just like Bahá'ís. Just lke Buddhists. Just like people of any religion.

Profiling is building a composite of the makeup of a killer based on what is known

and what experience tells the profiler. It is a compsoite based on information.

Racial Profiling is a composite based on hate and prejudice.

When I saw this post title "Does Profiling Work" I expected to find a thoughtful and insightful discussion thread on the work that Frank Black and Friends, The Academy Group and others do and whether it truly works. Instead I find a thread that comes close to only spreading prejudice and hate. I personally think that the presence of this string here is an insult to those that engage in this line of work and the heroes we worship like Frank Black, Peter Watts and Lara Means. It's also an insult to those of us who look up to people like Frank Black.

In the Pilot espisode of Millennium, The Frenchman, the killer leaves the hair of a blackman at the scene of the crime to throw the police off in their investigation.

Because Frank is a real profiler he says... "There's only been on incident of a black male serial killer. Statistically, it's improbable."

If he engaged in Racial Profiling he probably would have said "Let's go get that black b@st@rd," because racial profiling is based on prejudice and hate, not on fact.

On a funnier note, having not ever heard of Gloria Aldreds before I put her name into google and the only thing that comes up are pages and pages of this poll being posted over and over again. I did another search for Gloria Aldred and finally found her. If the objective for this post is to grab her attention, if it's to be based on searching for her name on the internet the poll has already failed in that respect because the writer couldn't even get her name right.

My final statement on the issue? Profiling works. Racial Profiling just sucks.

[Guest SouthernCelt]

In the Pilot espisode of Millennium, The Frenchman, the killer leaves the hair of a blackman at the scene of the crime to throw the police off in their investigation.

Because Frank is a real profiler he says... "There's only been on incident of a black male serial killer. Statistically, it's improbable."

If he engaged in Racial Profiling he probably would have said "Let's go get that black b@st@rd," because racial profiling is based on prejudice and hate, not on fact.

I would argue that Frank applied reverse racial profiling by applying a statistical improbability and effectively concluding that a black man could not have committed the crime. Only if Frank had considered other factors w/o considering the race being indicated would he have not been racial profiling.

On a more general note, I agree that inspectors and investigators that utilize the race or ethnicity of a person to include or exclude them may have an element of racial profiling in their investigation; however, to avoid investigating someone who closely fits several profile criteria, racial or otherwise, just to avoid the possibility of complaint on racial bias would seem to defeat the purpose of the whole exercise in improving public safety and security.