Seven And One - Why So Many Mistakes?

[Guest A Stranger]

This is the only episode I have only seen once, it's orignal airdate, until just today. I really like it, it looks fantastic, I was actaully blown away. It's almost like seeing a MLM episode I've never seen, it's been so long. I've seen the rest a million times over. I know the inconisistancies of Franks brothers and the Ed Cuffle issue have brought up but did anyone else notice how the video tape of Frank's thearpy session that is line-by-line the same from "The Innocents" is actually a different perfomance, or take of the same scene. I noticed because the orinal one is phenonmanal and made a huge impression. Why use a different take? The mistakes in "Seven and One" seem so obvious I don't understand them, especially on a show where they normally pay so much attention to detail.

Also Frank says to the preacher that the attacker looked like the man that took them origanlly and is dead? Ed Cuffle? But the attacker is Mabius. I even checked the credits and he is listed as Mabius so it's not just the same actor. What the F***? This seems like an episode that was meant to say alot, even as far as to be the series finale, I've read. If he is indeed Mabius, then that would have a huge impact on Frank's view of the Group, shouldn't it? Frank doesn't seem to think that the Group is corrupted by Evil but simply run by bad men. Mabius is portrayed up to this point as simply the Group's hitman, not supernatural.

I would like to hear any responses or thoughts. And just for the record I am not a season three hater by any means. In fact, I think it has aged extremly well. This show, and specifically this season was way ahead of it's times. I mean, it opens with terrorists downing an airplane! Plus the issue of bio-terrorism, stem-cell research, and religous fanaticism as a bad thing (compared to seasong two were it was a good thing. Compare "Owls/Roosters" with "Forcing the End.")

[4th Horseman]

I would like to hear any responses or thoughts. And just for the record I am not a season three hater by any means. In fact, I think it has aged extremly well. This show, and specifically this season was way ahead of it's times. I mean, it opens with terrorists downing an airplane! Plus the issue of bio-terrorism, stem-cell research, and religous fanaticism as a bad thing (compared to seasong two were it was a good thing. Compare "Owls/Roosters" with "Forcing the End.")

Hey A Stranger...very nice read indeed. Only having time to watch the series in its entirety one time, i would have to go back and re-watch that particular episode.

There is a similar scene in the episode 19:19. During the jailcell interview Frank has with Matthew Prine, he asks "when will the children be released", yet if you watch the tape of the very same interview a moment later, Frank says something completely different...also in the episode "A Room With No View", at the beginning when Lucy sneaks up on Howard Gordon in his dorm room, when he turns around and sees Lucy as the devil, it is exactly the same scene that was used in Lamentations, when Bletch sees Lucy descend the staircase...it has been shortened a bit, but if you look at it carefully, they just shortened it a bit, taking only the morphing sequence. One would have thought they would have come up with something scarier or newer...

anyway, will get back to you on the interview part...

The Fourth Horseman...

[Guest Max Fenig]

First of all, I want to say that my first experience with Season Three was last week. The impression it made on me was immediate and has only been with me for a matter of days, but I can safely say that that mark will stay with me, and that it's peak moments were phenomenal in every regard.

"Seven and One" was probably my second favorite episode of the season and quite possibly in my top five, although I understand how it must be taken. It's quite possibly the most surreal episode of the series, even moreso than "Bardo Thodol" and "A Room With No View", and it was far too well written for it's discrepancies - most particularly, Frank leaving the FBI - to be taken literally. Frank's attacker, transforming Mabius, his two brothers. This was most definitely a character piece, and that it all could have been a dream is evidenced strongly by the episode's sudden ending. Have you noticed how purposely it doesn't fit into the mythology in literal terms, but is a perfect summary and evolution of the development of Frank Black since the "Pilot" and even before the fact?

Ed Cuffle is not dead, but The Polaroid Man is. Mabius is an evil man living in a world where demons exist - only Legion/Lucy can appear as a different person to others. Frank's family has become devastated, confused, disjointed - one brother becomes two.

That "Seven and One" could be a dream without being referenced as one, that it could all be metaphorical - incredibly challenging stuff that fits in with the increasing risks that Millennium took in it's final season. As I said, it's far too well written to be a hack job. "Skull & Bones", the other case of mythology mix-up in Season Three, was a well-made episode, but didn't have the same quality of writing (it was probably overwritten).

Or it was a hack job. One hell of an episode, though, eh?

[Guest A Stranger]

  As I said, it's far too well written to be a hack job. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How is it so well written when it's filled with so many flaws? I don't get it.

The fact that it doesn't fit with the mythology just makes it seem to me like Carter and Spotnitz having been paying attention to the show.

[Guest Max Fenig]

How is it so well written when it's filled with so many flaws? I don't get it.

The fact that it doesn't fit with the mythology just makes it seem to me like Carter and Spotnitz having been paying attention to the show.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's always a possibility, but I don't buy it. What I mean by writing is the flow of the episode itself - as a stand-alone work, it's spectacular. In comparison, "Skull & Bones" was filled by continuity flaws within the episode alone (what happened to Cheryl Andrews? Read the book, Frank), poor dialogue or characterizations (mysterious Peter Watts reveals to Emma Hollis that The Group was responsible for 43 deaths), etc. As a character piece, "Seven and One" is so strong that Carter & Spotnitz would so blatantly disregard the mythology, and emphasis on BLATANTLY, seems too obvious to me.

Maybe I look too deeply into it, but that's what I get my kicks out of. Some people go to S&M clubs, I analyze "Seven and One"...

[Guest chrisnu]

As a character piece, "Seven and One" is so strong that Carter & Spotnitz would so blatantly disregard the mythology, and emphasis on BLATANTLY, seems too obvious to me.

CC & FS have shown many times on the X-Files that they have no quips with abandoning all prior continuity. "Closure" is the ultimate example of this. They sacrifice what Mulder's quest was about - which has been driving the entire series - for a feel-good ending during ratings sweeps. The retconning in the latter two seasons, but particularly the flashbacks in Season 8, are similarly alarming, the prime examples being Mulder's retroactive brain disease in "Within" and the IVF attempts in "Per Manum".

[Guest OfRedEarth]

I've been thinking a lot about this episode, too. I like it very much but the continuity errors are almost maddening. It seems like it's trying to be contradictory, to not fit with the rest of the series. Some of the mistakes are so obvious that it's ridiculous. I mean, it'd be one thing if they said Ed Cuffle is dead and then three seasons later they forgot about it, but this is just two episodes before his execution.

The idea came to me that this seems like a final episode, and I know others have thought the same thing. In fact, you could even imagine it as taking place sometime after the end of the series . . . the Millennium Group ceases to be a threat to Frank, Emma leaves them for whatever reason, and Frank is ready to be content. And then the Polaroids start arriving again, and we see that evil has returned to taunt Frank. The episode seems to imply that evil will always be after him, but now Frank has a new outlook and a new way to approach these forces.

It's just an idea, and obviously it leaves a gap between "Goodbye To All That" and this episode, but it works in a weird way.

Edited September 15, 2005 by OfRedEarth

[Guest ZeusFaber]

1. Frank stating that Ed Cuffle is dead in "Seven and One" is NOT a continuity error. It was the establishment of a point. The continuity error comes later with "Via Dolorosa", NOT "Seven and One".

2. Frank stating that the attacker looked like Ed Cuffle is also not a continuity error. As we have seen, Evil is able to take on many forms and confuse the mind (whether you choose to see this literally or metaphorically is unimportant). Thus, Evil=Mabius=Agent Boxer=Cuffle=Evil.

3. Frank having more than one brother is not continuity error. The only prior establishment of facts, as far as I'm aware, is the gravestone in "Midnight of the Century", stating something like "is survived by two sons" (someone else might be able to fill in the blanks here, it's a long time since I've seen that episode). Consequently, it could simply be that Frank's other borther was not alive at that point, and had died some time previously.

Sorry to go against the grain, but I find it somewhat disheartening to see such a strong episode as "Seven and One" dismissed as contradcitory and riddled with maddening errors when in fact they are not really present.

Just my point of view.

[4th Horseman]

1. Frank stating that Ed Cuffle is dead in "Seven and One" is NOT a continuity error.  It was the establishment of a point.  The continuity error comes later with "Via Dolorosa", NOT "Seven and One".

2. Frank stating that the attacker looked like Ed Cuffle is also not a continuity error.  As we have seen, Evil is able to take on many forms and confuse the mind (whether you choose to see this literally or metaphorically is unimportant).  Thus, Evil=Mabius=Agent Boxer=Cuffle=Evil.

3. Frank having more than one brother is not  continuity error.  The only prior establishment of facts, as far as I'm aware, is the gravestone in "Midnight of the Century", stating something like "is survived by two sons" (someone else might be able to fill in the blanks here, it's a long time since I've seen that episode).  Consequently, it could simply be that Frank's other borther was not alive at that point, and had died some time previously.

Sorry to go against the grain, but I find it somewhat disheartening to see such a strong episode as "Seven and One" dismissed as contradcitory and riddled with maddening errors when in fact they are not really present.

Just my point of view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whoa Zeus my friend you are not "going against the grain" only telling us how you see it with your own eyes.....its all good...this is the kind of discussion we have been SORELY missing at TIWWA in quite some time.

MOTC is one of my favorite episodes and i dont remember a gravesite scene mentioning relatives...

Are you talking about his father's gravesite? That was not until the final episode of Season 2 when Frank gets the call at 6:02..

Now i have a couple of questions for the panel here..and you will have to forgive my slowness in understanding such issues, i am getting up in age here...LOL

1. Up until this episode (correct me if i am wrong) it had only been Lucy who had the ability to shape shift, to morph into any character she choose. So is this character Mabius, who morphs from the figure of Agent Boxer another demon from a similar dominion as Lucy?

2. Exactly who or what represents Hollis's double at the end of seven and 1? And why "commit suicide"? If there is any continuity issues, why arent we talking about Hollis's betrayal of Frank, even after directly experiencing what Frank has for all these years. I would, if her, tend to start thinking there just might be something to this "evil" thing he is always fighting...

just my opinions as well...

The Fourth Horseman..

Season 3 is stirring those long ceased winds of discussion amongst us...

[Guest lonegungrrly1121]

2. Exactly who or what represents Hollis's double at the end of seven and 1? And why "commit suicide"? If there is any continuity issues, why arent we talking about Hollis's betrayal of Frank, even after directly experiencing what Frank has for all these years. I would, if her, tend to start thinking there just might be something to this "evil" thing he is always fighting...

just my opinions as well...

The Fourth Horseman..

Season 3 is stirring those long ceased winds of discussion amongst us...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it did seem out of character for emma to betray frank at the end, after everything they had been through, but there is a scene where she phones peter(?) up and tells him that she can't go through with it, she can't betray Frank, and he tells her that it is too late. it's so sad especially after sacrificing everything to save her father he tells her that she shouldn't have done it...

but back to seven and one, I adore that episode! I agree that mabius must be a strain of evil/demon much like Lucy, evil's last attempt at getting frank. in the past it was by trying to persuade him, but their last effort was by force and fear