Scariest Millennium Episode

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Yes, I think I hafta agree with you and MIB... Both episodes were pretty scary all right.

But, I think to me the ALL TIME most frightening episode was where Joe plays the cross-dressing Crack Hoe Serial Killer and... Wait a minute... I think I'm having a flashback from Nam... OH MY GOD!!! (soundz of choppers)

L@the, you were in Viet Nam? How old were you when you were deployed, 10? Yes, I would have to say that probably is a flashback of some sort. I think I would have remembered a Millennium episode like that. Again though, if Millennium would have lasted a few more years, I'm sure it would only have been a matter of time before that ground was covered in a story line.

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

L@the, you were in Viet Nam? How old were you when you were deployed, 10? Yes, I would have to say that probably is a flashback of some sort. I think I would have remembered a Millennium episode like that. Again though, if Millennium would have lasted a few more years, I'm sure it would only have been a matter of time before that ground was covered in a story line.

Heh heh..., yeah, I guess you're right; I just barely missed that one, I think I was about 16 when they pulled out. I just like to use the classic Vietnam flashback scenario to show when I'm losin' it... Actually, I think I got the idea from a comedian somewheres way back ago; and the expression 'Charlie's in the light!' is from one of the absolutely outstanding New Twilight Zone episodes (1980) called 'Nightcrawlers' which was about a Vietnam Vet where they had used some kind of experimental something in the war where when he has nightmares about the war it ACTUALLY comes alive around him. DAMN good episode!!!

I like that no matter HOW outlandish the ideas are you keep coming back to the thought that if the show had run long enough they woulda done it!

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Heh heh..., yeah, I guess you're right; I just barely missed that one, I think I was about 16 when they pulled out. I just like to use the classic Vietnam flashback scenario to show when I'm losin' it... Actually, I think I got the idea from a comedian somewheres way back ago; and the expression 'Charlie's in the light!' is from one of the absolutely outstanding New Twilight Zone episodes (1980) called 'Nightcrawlers' which was about a Vietnam Vet where they had used some kind of experimental something in the war where when he has nightmares about the war it ACTUALLY comes alive around him. DAMN good episode!!!

I like that no matter HOW outlandish the ideas are you keep coming back to the thought that if the show had run long enough they woulda done it!

Yeah, I remember watching reruns of the original Twilight Zone when I was about 12 or 13 years old. You don't really see it much these days. It would be interesting to see how much I remember after 25 years if someone picked it up on cable. I do seem to recall that they did have some very "outlandish" episodes, as you mentioned.

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

Yeah, I remember watching reruns of the original Twilight Zone when I was about 12 or 13 years old. You don't really see it much these days. It would be interesting to see how much I remember after 25 years if someone picked it up on cable. I do seem to recall that they did have some very "outlandish" episodes, as you mentioned.

Of course the CLASSIC original show was awesome; NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE could deliver a story quite the way Rod Serling could... Absolutely unique!!!

The remakes in 1980 were not to bad overall; there were many GREAT names involved including Harlan Ellison, etc. Some were kinda lame, but 'Nightcrawlers' was by FAR the very best of that series. Do NOT bother with the more recent 2002 remakes... GEEZ..., I got about 10 minutes through one episode (with Jeremy Piven no less, who I do NOT care for AND he's acting like a TOTAL @ss in this one!) and I turned it off in disgust. Completely insulting... Maybe to a SLOW 12 year old who has ONLY watched MTV all his / her life it just POSSIBLY might be slightly entertaining, but I doubt it...

BTW, I wouldn't try TOO hard if I were you to remember what the hell was happening to you 25 years ago...

You might strain something...

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Of course the CLASSIC original show was awesome; NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE could deliver a story quite the way Rod Serling could... Absolutely unique!!!

The remakes in 1980 were not to bad overall; there were many GREAT names involved including Harlan Ellison, etc. Some were kinda lame, but 'Nightcrawlers' was by FAR the very best of that series. Do NOT bother with the more recent 2002 remakes... GEEZ..., I got about 10 minutes through one episode (with Jeremy Piven no less, who I do NOT care for AND he's acting like a TOTAL @ss in this one!) and I turned it off in disgust. Completely insulting... Maybe to a SLOW 12 year old who has ONLY watched MTV all his / her life it just POSSIBLY might be slightly entertaining, but I doubt it...

BTW, I wouldn't try TOO hard if I were you to remember what the hell was happening to you 25 years ago...

You might strain something...

Yes, I my age I strain enough stuff getting around in day to day life without pushing my luck and thinking too hard and killing additional brain cells. Speaking of my memory, I remember a "Twilight Zone the Movie", and the original show of course, but I don't seem to recall a remake in 1980, or 2002 for that matter. I remember this neat little show I used to watch a long time ago that seemed to be similar. I think it was narrated by James Coburn and was called "Darkroom". I loved it at the time, but there is no telling what I would think about it these days. I think it came out in 1981. I'm not sure how long it lasted, but it seems like it had about a 1 year run.

[Bardo Thodol]

Definitely one of the all time greatest things that happened to television, sci fi, drama, and/or tv story telling was the original TTZ! Rod Serling was brilliant! And nothing beats those openings and closings of every ep... his voice, stance, his cigarette! He was like the surreal, yet existential, somewhat noir, television spokesman of the human condition. Fantastic stuff. Made a big impression on me as a kid. Big influence in my interests, ideas, etc.

I think for me, two of the scariest episodes of TTZ (forgive my not being able to recall the titles) were... (warning... spoilers... for anyone who has never scene these particular eps and plans to buy the box sets...)

The one with the maneqines... where the story is told throught the eyes of this woman, and in the end, it turns out that she is a manequine herself, and forgot that she was only having her turn for the day to be a real person. Man, all those strange things happening to her, and the voices. And then she finally gets the the 13th floor... just the how atmosphere of the episode. And then finally, when she is confronted by manequines all saying her name!!! Absolutely chilling!!! I am getting chills even now as a write about it!!! Brilliantly terrifying!!! I have never looked a manequines quite the same way after that! LOL I always associate them with that episode. Not that I think they are actually somehow alive. It's just that the episode made such a powerful impression upon my imagination as a kid.

The other is the episode with the kid that had the power to do anything to anyone if he didn't get his way, and how the whole family and community was held in fear by him. All those horrible things he did - the deaths, disappearances, malformations, etc.. Terrifying. Not as much as the previous ep mentioned, but definitely up there.

I also love how this episode was one of the earliest story telling devices for taking a peak a human disfuction in families and communities, as well as being a great exploration of the power, fear, and control. Fantastic!

Now, the original topic at had. The scariest ep of MLM. I was a pretty close one for me between Pilot, Mikado, TEOTWAWKI, and Skull and Bones.

As far as Pilot, I had never seen the kind of visuals used in this episode, along with music. The Frenchman's face, and the wispering sound of his voice were chilling. The cake taker in this one was when Frank found the victims still alive with their eyes and mounths sewn shut. Unbelieveably horrifying and terrifying the first time I saw it! And it still impacts me to this day when I watch it.

In Mikado, there were numerous aspects of terror. The way they were able to convey the idea of the existence of this perp with virtually (pardon the pun) no apparences of the killer! And those brief images of him in that black clock. Brilliant.

TEOTWAWKI was scary simply for the fact that I could easily see a group of men behaving in that manner with their families. In fact, there have been and are men who behave this way - paramilitary, extremist, survivalist, militia types. But, what made this extra scary somehow was making it the suburban professional next door neighbor type. I could so very easily see people from different suburbs I have lived it behaving this way.

And finally, the winner, in my book, only because there were so many harrowing elements, scenes, situations, and implications in this episode. Really creepy, really scary. This episode made it so easy to suspend disbelief about so many things, and left you really horrified, frightened, and disheartened by the end... having just finished the viewer off with that scene toward the end with Hollis finally getting to that house... the music.... Watts walking in... disarming Hollis, and making her stand there, watching the house be demolised and all evidence destroyed... Watts monologue during all this, and the look and Hollis' face throughout. WOW!

So, Skull and Bones got my vote.

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

Definitely one of the all time greatest things that happened to television, sci fi, drama, and/or tv story telling was the original TTZ! Rod Serling was brilliant! And nothing beats those openings and closings of every ep... his voice, stance, his cigarette! He was like the surreal, yet existential, somewhat noir, television spokesman of the human condition. Fantastic stuff. Made a big impression on me as a kid. Big influence in my interests, ideas, etc.

I think for me, two of the scariest episodes of TTZ (forgive my not being able to recall the titles) were... (warning... spoilers... for anyone who has never scene these particular eps and plans to buy the box sets...)

The one with the maneqines... where the story is told throught the eyes of this woman, and in the end, it turns out that she is a manequine herself, and forgot that she was only having her turn for the day to be a real person. Man, all those strange things happening to her, and the voices. And then she finally gets the the 13th floor... just the how atmosphere of the episode. And then finally, when she is confronted by manequines all saying her name!!! Absolutely chilling!!! I am getting chills even now as a write about it!!! Brilliantly terrifying!!! I have never looked a manequines quite the same way after that! LOL I always associate them with that episode. Not that I think they are actually somehow alive. It's just that the episode made such a powerful impression upon my imagination as a kid.

The other is the episode with the kid that had the power to do anything to anyone if he didn't get his way, and how the whole family and community was held in fear by him. All those horrible things he did - the deaths, disappearances, malformations, etc.. Terrifying. Not as much as the previous ep mentioned, but definitely up there.

I also love how this episode was one of the earliest story telling devices for taking a peak a human disfuction in families and communities, as well as being a great exploration of the power, fear, and control. Fantastic!

Now, the original topic at had. The scariest ep of MLM. I was a pretty close one for me between Pilot, Mikado, TEOTWAWKI, and Skull and Bones.

As far as Pilot, I had never seen the kind of visuals used in this episode, along with music. The Frenchman's face, and the wispering sound of his voice were chilling. The cake taker in this one was when Frank found the victims still alive with their eyes and mounths sewn shut. Unbelieveably horrifying and terrifying the first time I saw it! And it still impacts me to this day when I watch it.

In Mikado, there were numerous aspects of terror. The way they were able to convey the idea of the existence of this perp with virtually (pardon the pun) no apparences of the killer! And those brief images of him in that black clock. Brilliant.

TEOTWAWKI was scary simply for the fact that I could easily see a group of men behaving in that manner with their families. In fact, there have been and are men who behave this way - paramilitary, extremist, survivalist, militia types. But, what made this extra scary somehow was making it the suburban professional next door neighbor type. I could so very easily see people from different suburbs I have lived it behaving this way.

And finally, the winner, in my book, only because there were so many harrowing elements, scenes, situations, and implications in this episode. Really creepy, really scary. This episode made it so easy to suspend disbelief about so many things, and left you really horrified, frightened, and disheartened by the end... having just finished the viewer off with that scene toward the end with Hollis finally getting to that house... the music.... Watts walking in... disarming Hollis, and making her stand there, watching the house be demolised and all evidence destroyed... Watts monologue during all this, and the look and Hollis' face throughout. WOW!

So, Skull and Bones got my vote.

Very nicely said Mr. Psycho... Particularly the excellent description of Rod Serling (I have a book about his life story and the story of 'Twilight Zone', maybe one day I'll finish it...

The one episode is with Bill Mumy (same as in 'Lost in Space' and.... [Wait for it!] Lineer (sp) in B5) and it is called 'It's a Good Life'.

The one with the mannequins is called 'The After Hours".

Nice choices; for me personally the one with Burgess Meredith as the last man alive on Earth. That ending knocked my stomach out when I was about 10. That episode was called 'Time Enough at Last'.

You have my interest stirred about 'Skull and Bones' (I REALLY need to get to those episodes!!! ) I'm looking forward to taking closer note of the ending this time around...

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

And finally, the winner, in my book, only because there were so many harrowing elements, scenes, situations, and implications in this episode. Really creepy, really scary. This episode made it so easy to suspend disbelief about so many things, and left you really horrified, frightened, and disheartened by the end... having just finished the viewer off with that scene toward the end with Hollis finally getting to that house... the music.... Watts walking in... disarming Hollis, and making her stand there, watching the house be demolised and all evidence destroyed... Watts monologue during all this, and the look and Hollis' face throughout. WOW!

So, Skull and Bones got my vote.

Yes, I agree on Skull and Bones being pretty scary. The scene where Emma discovers the house and walks through it is indeed very chilling, and you can see the horror on her face as she imagines what kind of atrocities took place there. If I remember correctly, she notices that something in one of the rooms is misplaced or has been placed there while she was walking through the house, and I can only imagine how scary that would have been. Then, the dialogue between Peter and Emma, along with Watts' actions throughout the rest of the episode, paint Peter in a new sinister light that he have not seen before. As previously mentioned, I thought the first five S3 episodes, with the exception of "13 Years" were actually not too bad, and not as bad as many other people thought, but "Skull & Bones" rekindled my faith in the show and took it back to that upper eschelon of television viewing. With 6 out of the next 7 episodes also being extremely good, I felt the series was back on track, even without Catherine and Lara. There were a few ups and downs the rest of the way, but the remaining episodes were pretty good for the most part, with Matryoshka, Forcing the End and Bardo Thodol being the only subpar efforts.

[Bardo Thodol]

Yes, I agree on Skull and Bones being pretty scary. The scene where Emma discovers the house and walks through it is indeed very chilling, and you can see the horror on her face as she imagines what kind of atrocities took place there. If I remember correctly, she notices that something in one of the rooms is misplaced or has been placed there while she was walking through the house, and I can only imagine how scary that would have been. Then, the dialogue between Peter and Emma, along with Watts' actions throughout the rest of the episode, paint Peter in a new sinister light that he have not seen before.

OMG, yes. The expression on Emma's face as she begins to realise the nature of the crime scene she is walking through! And, I thought the darker nature Watts had been slowly revealed as Season 2 progressed. I thought it was a great and logical progression - how, as the years got closer to the millennium, he became more controlling, more secretive, more ideological (Group beliefs and practices). Actually, I think his darker nature began to be revealed (as well as that of the Group), in Paper Dove, with the revelation that Peter and the Group had kept info from Frank about his stalker, and the casual way they had just let themselves into Frank's house and basement to install the new security software - without so much as an appology or explanation of either action! That was the first sign of the controlling arrogance of Peter and the Group. It was great how they did it, but then distracted us the humourous Roedecker and Dickie Bird characters. I think they accomplished the darkening of Watts in very subtle ways during the course of season, and allowed his character to develop slowly over the season, starting with his controlling reaction to Frank not responding immediately to his repeated pages in the beginning of Beware the Dog. up throughout It is amazing how convincingly controlling, intimidating, and frightening Terry O'Quinn came across in this episode. It was like they build it up throughout the episode, then pulled out all the stops at the end. Fantastic!

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

OMG, yes. The expression on Emma's face as she begins to realise the nature of the crime scene she is walking through! And, I thought the darker nature Watts had been slowly revealed as Season 2 progressed. I thought it was a great and logical progression - how, as the years got closer to the millennium, he became more controlling, more secretive, more ideological (Group beliefs and practices). Actually, I think his darker nature began to be revealed (as well as that of the Group), in Paper Dove, with the revelation that Peter and the Group had kept info from Frank about his stalker, and the casual way they had just let themselves into Frank's house and basement to install the new security software - without so much as an appology or explanation of either action! That was the first sign of the controlling arrogance of Peter and the Group. It was great how they did it, but then distracted us the humourous Roedecker and Dickie Bird characters. I think they accomplished the darkening of Watts in very subtle ways during the course of season, and allowed his character to develop slowly over the season, starting with his controlling reaction to Frank not responding immediately to his repeated pages in the beginning of Beware the Dog. up throughout It is amazing how convincingly controlling, intimidating, and frightening Terry O'Quinn came across in this episode. It was like they build it up throughout the episode, then pulled out all the stops at the end. Fantastic!

Actually, I think I kind of miss spoke. I think I said something like "they painted him in a sinister light that we had never seen before". What I should have said was that it was that they escalated it to a new level in that episode, and in all of season 3 for that matter. I agree with what you say about them building up to this in a fairly gradual way, but this episode kind of takes a leap in my opinion and leaves no doubts in our mind. It's interesting that you mention "Paper Dove" as the episode where this began to become apparent, because I have rarely watched this episode. It's not that its a bad episode, but the killers Mom just gives me the heeby jeebies even more than the killer, and that voice of hers is simply intolerable. Now that you mention it as such an important episode regarding Watts and the group though, I will have to go back and watch it, and just have the remote control handy to mute his Mom in those scenes. To be honest, I think it would have been a little better if her character wasn't so over the top and unbelievable, not to mention annoying. By the way, I don't remember many of the details of this episode, but as a side note, it was written by Ted Mann & Walon Green, and this would be an indication that these guys, and not Morgan & Wong were the first to really take us down that road, even if in a more subtle way than later episodes. I had always thought that "The Beginning and The End" was the episode that got the ball rolling, but as I have mentioned earlier, season three took it to all new levels, especially regarding Watts.