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ethsnafu

Anyone Fancy A Quick One?

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After Fourth Horseman had me neck-deep in angel lore after posing a right royal quandary I couldn't explain I thought it might be nice to have a topic where any unanswered posers can be posted, without need for an individual episode related topic, in the hope that the conglomerate of eccentrics that we are might be able to proffer any solutions and afford us all a good nights sleep: a kind of Millennium Drop In Clinic if you wish. So, here's my thing...

1) Why does Emma Hollis join the Millennium Group? Is it of her own volition? Though it could be a simple case of addled understanding my belief is that the Faustian pact she formed with Peter was for a cure for her father in exchange for her assistance in ousting Frank from the FBI...

WATTS: His deterioration is not inevitable. He can be healed.

HOLLIS: You feed on other people's weaknesses, don't you?

WATTS: Do you want this for your father? Would you want this for anybody?

HOLLIS: What do you want?

WATTS: Frank Black has important work to do for the Group. He's wasted at the FBI. We want him out.

HOLLIS: I have no control over that.

WATTS: But you're interested.

...why have I previously assumed that when she is sat before the Ouroborous Screensaver that her group membership is the price she paid for her Father's cure. Can anyone identify a point in the episode where group membership is discussed in reference to this.

2) Who sent the 'Midnight Of The Century' greetings card to Frank? Upon first viewing I had assumed that it was his angel-besieged Mother but on reflection this is an unsound deduction as logic demands that she would have simply given the card to him. Given the unusual circumstances of the cards arrival and its cryptic greeting, why does Frank barely flinch when Peter Watts utters the exact same phrase to him moments later at his festive Cheese and Wine thingy.

3) In Owls/Roosters a scene occurs when Watts faxes a partial Sig Rune to the Old Man for clarification. This scene reveals a framed photograph of Hitler adorning the room of one of the men (I am as sure as I can be that it is the Old Man's abode that has the pic.) What does this imply, given The Old Man's subsequent revelation that his parents died in the Nazi Death Camps, and who is the second figure shown with Hitler in the photograph.

Anyone help me out with any of these?

Eth,

Edited by ethsnafu

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Great post! Just briefly, I wondered how on earth the angel card could have have been sent to Frank too from 1946? How on earth would they know his address in 1998? Spooky! Unless his Dad sent him it in an envelope prepared in 1946 but what about the post mark?

One the subject of your first point about Emma Hollis, I always felt that she under incredible pressure and emotion sold Frank out but joining the Group to acquire for her Father a cure from Alzheimer’s disease.

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2) Who sent the 'Midnight Of The Century' greetings card to Frank? Upon first viewing I had assumed that it was his angel-besieged Mother but on reflection this is an unsound deduction as logic demands that she would have simply given the card to him. Given the unusual circumstances of the cards arrival and its cryptic greeting, why does Frank barely flinch when Peter Watts utters the exact same phrase to him moments later at his festive Cheese and Wine thingy.

I thought that perhaps it came from the angel (name escapes me at the moment) and that it wasn't really mailed in 1946 but was made to look that way to get Frank's attention. Frank was obviously being encouraged by supernatural forces to contact his father and have his perspective of the events of his childhood put aright.

3) In Owls/Roosters a scene occurs when Watts faxes a partial Sig Rune to the Old Man for clarification. This scene reveals a framed photograph of Hitler adorning the room of one of the men (I am as sure as I can be that it is the Old Man's abode that has the pic.) What does this imply, given The Old Man's subsequent revelation that his parents died in the Nazi Death Camps, and who is the second figure shown with Hitler in the photograph.

Hey, Chrisnu, can you get us a good screenshot of the Hitler photograph that eth is referring to? I had noticed the photo in the background in an earlier viewing of the episode but had frankly forgotten about it.

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Well said Old Man.

Oddly, there have been documented cases of letters arriving hot on the 'welcome mat' some moons after there initial posting. One such in Germany arrived 286 years after the eager writer slipped it in the post box though in all cases the recipient has remained at the address the letter was intended for. What deepens the enigma further is that the 'midnight' letter appears not to have a forwarding address suggesting that it was delivered to Frank not by redirected mail but by the recipient at the original address - I guess that puts his father firmly in the picture as the phantom postman and may well represent an attempt to make contact with his son, albeit covertly. What puzzles me the most is Frank's nonchalant reaction to Peter Watts when he utters the phrase Frank received on a beautiful calligraphic card a short time before - unless it is a phrase that peppers Peter's everyday parlance one would expect Frank to find it more than a strange coincidence that he should use it then. I wholeheartedly agree with SouthernCelt with regards to a supernatural influence, such is the all pervasive wierdness of the cards arrival, this just adds to the oddness with regards to Frank's everyday reaction to it - it's interesting that he dosen't even draw Lara's attention to it after he invites her round to use her angelic abilities to divine the power behind Jordan's drawing.

As for Emma. I too believed that Emma had joined the Millennium Group in a Faustian pact to save her father from the ravages of Alzheimer's, I thought Peter had offered her group membership in an on screen dialogue but the dialogue simply states that he expects her to use her soon to be acquired influence to oust Frank from the FBI and into the loving arms of the MM Group. Sod's ineffable law strikes, they brain tinker anyway and Frank leaves without any real meddling from Emma. My quandary is: At what point did group membership become a dangling carrot? In the absence of Emma's usefulness for plan A was group membership a way for the MM Group to recoup their losses? If Emma was only ever intended to be pawn in the groups re-recruitment of Frank, what possible purpose could she serve if Frank was outside her sphere of influence? I am aware that there are moments, most notable in Bardo Thodol I believe, where Emma seems to conclude that knowledge such as the groups can not easily be dismissed and it would appear, at least on the face of it, that as she progresses into gnosis she finds herself less ready to subscribe to the 'goodies and baddies' philosophy she holds sacred in the first trimester of the Season but, and it's a big but, even if she had have gone like a lamb to the slaughter to the inner sanctum of the group there is no real reason to suggest they would have accepted her. Almost all of Peter's interest in Emma relies on her close association with Frank and when she is no longer in a position to make good on her bargain their relationship has already begun to break down, Frank is almost disinterested upon finally becoming aware of her shady dealings with group and gives no indication that she has that much of an emotional sway over his decision making anyway....

...FRANK: Do you really think I care about any of this stuff?

HOLLIS: What was I supposed to do? He's my father.

FRANK: Do what you have to do.

....I can only conclude that the group, in desperate times as it was, took Hollis as payment for her fathers cure when the original terms of the bargain became untenable.

Sometimes your head just hurts......anyone have any answers to the 'Hitler' photograph and, more importantly, any quick queries of their own?

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3) In Owls/Roosters a scene occurs when Watts faxes a partial Sig Rune to the Old Man for clarification. This scene reveals a framed photograph of Hitler adorning the room of one of the men (I am as sure as I can be that it is the Old Man's abode that has the pic.) What does this imply, given The Old Man's subsequent revelation that his parents died in the Nazi Death Camps, and who is the second figure shown with Hitler in the photograph.

Given his concerned look, could it possibly be the Old Man himself? Time frame could be right

EDIT: Aaarrgh! a 1MB Bitmap file! I changed to a jpeg for you! Thanks for the screen capture!

post-1-1136027193_thumb.jpg

Edited by The Old Man

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Sorry :embarassed:

Thanks - shoulda known better :(

I apologies for my quick, un-thinking response. It was apparently Rudolph Axeman in the photo. Eth's suggestion for a Millennium drop in clinic is appropriate for me since I've watched the episodes again. Someone said life gets in the way and a few years since I've seen them. The trouble with this show is the emotions stay with you even if the details don't and the devil is in the details. What vast implications and parallels Owls/ Roosters has for today, as the very thing that divides us is our ideologies even though we all sense the end is near by whatever means.

Now that I've cleaned up my mess - hopefully you can give Eth's topic the respect it deserves.

Edited by ein042

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Thank you so much for the screen capture but alas and alack I have drawn a blank after two days of frantic googling. I am excited at the prospect of a positive match - how did you deduce it was Axeman? Put me out of my misery. I thought the handshake and demeanour of the figure seem distinctly affable, even congenial, to me which maked me think it isn't the Old Man. He equates the Nazi regime, and his parent's deaths at their hands, with the 'end of the world' so it would be strangely incongruent if it was him we see cordially greeting Hitler. I wondered if it was Juan Peron as Odessa is noted in the episode to have evolved under the auspices of the Argentine regime but it is not, nor is it the then Duke of Windsor or any known, or at least widely known, Nazi sympathiser or collaborator (I have tried them all...or at least it feels that way.) On the off chance it isn't Axeman can anyone at least identify the uniform worn by the figure? I have tried to find a positive match for either that or the collar insignia but as neither are of razor sharp clarity much is open ended - I do think that the shape of the insignia bares more of a resemblance to the British Army's badges than any other but any help would be appreciated as I have little knowledge of militariana and it might make life easier if I could at least identify the country of origin. All said and done the photograph is given enough prominence to make me think it has meaning.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Eth

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My conclusion is only based on Odessa's finding out of the recent discovery of the relic by the group, propelling them into action for its acquisition. When the Old man is apprised of the events and recognizes the sig, the camera acts as his memory (since we can't see into his mind) and brings the picture to the forefront.

It's likely I could have missed something and am way off on this. There are always levels I miss - that's part of the beauty of this show. I'd be interested in other theories too.

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It looks like the same uniform - the rank idk?

German Military Uniforms

Links from there to SS ForeignVolunteers as well as Collar sigs and shoulder straps but almost impossible to tell

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Sorry :embarassed:

Thanks - shoulda known better :(

No problem! Thats what we are here for!

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