Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Lara Means

Millennium Groups Aims

Recommended Posts

how are the group trying to end the world, how. Destruction or the end of order? How do they know when earthquakes will strike? why do they want to kill the psyhics in season three episodes1 and2? why do they want to kill frank, surely if talked he would be thought crazy? Why do they want to end the world? And how do they make sense of revelation and nostrodamus, cause its so unclear about the millennium. If you know any of the answers to the question please post back. :ouro: do they want a world with only their members?

Edited by Lara Means

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just had to reply to someone with the moniker Lara Means and though I would love to go all wildly speculative with all the points you raised I am in fact male and therefor unable to multi-task (or so I am repeatedly reminded.) I picked the psychic sisters as it is something that has troubled me on many occasions and hoped that in fanning the flames of this topic someone else might solve the riddle. The official line is that the sisters possessed a gift of remote viewing so dangerously accurate that the Marburg Virus was unleased to cull them in an attempt to stop them penetrating the innermost secrets of the Millennium Group. The reason they remain bright eyed (literally) and bushy tailed (figuratively) is that their gift allowed them to pre-empt this and they outlived the viral apocalypse in bio-containment chambers they stole from the CDC. This slaughter is alluded to in the title 'Innocents' which draws its inspiration from the Slaughter of the Holy Innocents as ordered by Herod - though this could have a double meaning as the historicity of the account of the Slaughter of the Innocents in Matthew is hotly debated. There is no historical evidence to even suggest, let alone prove, that Herod ever slaughtered the children of Bethlehem. Neither Roman nor Jewish records contain any mention of such an event; indeed, even the rest of the New Testament is silent on the topic - could it be that what is truly alluded to in the title is the 'believed' slaughter of the women by the Millennium Group rather than an actual event. Now here's my (other) thing: the videotaped session of the remote channelling, as viewed by Emma, reveals their utterings to be composed of repetitive strings of non-specific word groups (e.g. round, square, six, two, warning, wings, tubes, fire, total correlation) and yet is asserted that so accurate is their level of psychic acuity that they can beginning pin-pointing an exact location from twenty words onwards which seems highly ambitious given the words we see in the examples. Now even if such discombobulate meanderings could be used to penetrate the innermost secrets of the Millennium Group why in God's name would they unleash a hemorrhagic fever of such devastating pathology when they would be afforded no certainty of success and how did they think they could 'target' with a disease when the mode of transmission from human to human is not fully understood - would it not make more sense to use a disease where the etiology and mode of transmission can be controlled rather than using a 'let it go and hope for the best' approach. More importantly why was it unleased in areas such as the Asian continent when it is noted that the psychics were located in the US, the whole point of the first two episodes was detailing their attempts to flee the US for haven overseas. Now Marburg musings aside, if the psychics were so adept that they predicted Marbrug in advance, so far in fact they were able to steal the bio-containment chambers needed to protect themselves, why were they so utterly unprepared for every subsequent attack the Millennium Group made against them? And considering the events take place some months after the Marburg outbreak why do they linger so long before attempting to flee? Surely if the Millennium group was willing to bury it's wives, husbands, children and a potentially large number of the world's populace in order to kill them it wasn't going to rest on its laurels for many months before deciding that shooting them was probably a wiser execution method than a global pandemic. Why does Frank assert that the first death in the outbreak was a mother and child when surely it was Jason Molgilny and why do the sisters intubate their mother during transit? Not only would this be nigh impossible to tolerate in a conscious patient but would serve no function if she is capable of breathing on her own, which she is, once the endotracheal tube is removed. And why and why and why.......

I have always believed I am missing something so obvious that it screams out from my plasma screen everytime I watch this duology but I can't for the love of me see it. Nothing as described makes sense and nothing in Millennium is so senseless so I can only assume the plot is too higbrow for my grey matter. Anyone help?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, the millennium group being so good at tracking people down and eliminating them, why not just a couple of goons with silenced pistols? or Peter Watts for instance, he has proven many times throughout the series that he is quite capable of stealth,guile, and belives in what the group is doing enough to kill for. As far as using a virus?????? why? you would have to come up with some sort of syphon filter virus, a virus that can be genetically programmed like tomahawk missile. The virus seeks out a specific set of genetic blueprints, which are programmed from a sample of th DNA from the desired target. If the sisters were remote viewers, then obviously the group would have samples of their DNA on file, syphon filter viruses could then be programmed with a very specific "trigger" then set loose in the area where the sisters are located.........or you could just blow up their car!!! :fool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“He who conceals his disease cannot expect to be cured”

Fascinating ruminations about 'target viruses' and some astute points that seem to be obvious to all but those who crafted the plot of the episode. Before I add my two penneth let me first make it blindingly clear that I love Season Three. I am not that ardent a Season Two fan that I can't see the genius involved in the first and third seasons and I hope no-one interprets my criticisms as being anything more than an isolated disillusionment concerning the episodes in question.

Some moons ago I remember reading that events of Innocents/Exegesis were somehow forced upon the writers as a season with 80% of the worlds populace pushing up the daisies would be untenable but this seems to ignore the fact that Marburg is a real world disease with well documented, and easily accessible, records of its associated mortality rates. It is not impossible that Season Three could have honoured the original plan for Marburg and allowed it 350 deaths or so and simply opened with something that dealt with the aftermath from Frank's perspective. It is quite right that the Marburg outbreak demanded deeper clarification but there was no need, none at all as far as I can see, to transform the disease into the most ill conceived weapon of execution ever designed, aimed at the most undeserving of targets.

I also take issue with the idea of Watt's complicity in the whole affair. Whatever Peter Watts was to become he was not a man prepared to watch his wife and children haemorrhage around him whilst hoping and praying that a few tea-leaf readers were biting the dust if they were unlucky enough to be in the presence of an infected sneeze - if anyone doubts Peter's devotion to his kith and kin then Collateral Damage in S3 was to affirm what we already knew. Of course the Millennium Group would have simply shot the women, of course they would and to assert anything else is preposterous and yet I hoped that at some point the Season would revisit this drama with the maturity and acumen they exhibit in Seven and One and offer us some clarification to the Marburg mystery that did not play out like a piece of sixth-form fanfic but alas and alack it never happened. I assume that Innocents and Exegesis told the story in the way it did to acclimatise us to the profound changes the Group had undergone during the hiatus between seasons though some time ago when the Marburg discussion was at its virulent height it was noted that my assertion that the group became evil in season three was wrong, 'Collateral Damage' and 'Skull and Bones' were examples cited of stories that depicted Millennium as 'evil' long before the events of Season Two - now forgive me for being obtuse but despite the fact that they do indeed depict events that occurred many years ago they are in fact S3 episodes and possibly not the best ones to cite as evidence to the contrary. Collateral Damage, whilst not tidying up the mess of Innocents et al, did reassert that the MM group was responsible for the outbreak and gave me some comfort in affording us a Marburg update. Eric Swan, Gulf War Veteran and Talk Show Fan, claimed that the Millennium Group gave Marburg to the US government to test on American Soldiers - though quite why the American Government would require such a thing is not fully explained nor is it clarified why it would decimate its own troops in the midst of a conflict it was determined to win - and the subsequent infection of troops with Marburg was what gave rise to Gulf War Syndrome, this is confirmed when it is noted the agent the warhead delivered was microplasma flavivirus, infamous in Gulf War Syndrome lore. What becomes confusing is that despite Swan's personal belief as to what infected the troops the vaccination that he withholds from the infected Taylor Watts is the Marburg PrP Vaccination complete with Ouroborus label. Frank also confirms that the virus he believes Taylor has been exposed to is Marburg when he explains to Swan that what happened in the Gulf happened to his wife. I guess my 'prayers' that the Millennium Groups involvement, in the mannner depicted, would be a red herring were to go unanswered.

Ultimately I guess it matters not whether the group remained as mystical-templars or conspiring war mongers, I love the show in it's light and dark incarnations and can handle the concept that the group knowingly unleased Marburg, really I can, but what I cannot accept is that it did so to kill the psychic sisters.

Till then,

Eth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collateral Damage, whilst not tidying up the mess of Innocents et al, did reassert that the MM group was responsible for the outbreak and gave me some comfort in affording us a Marburg update. Eric Swan, Gulf War Veteran and Talk Show Fan, claimed that the Millennium Group gave Marburg to the US government to test on American Soldiers - though quite why the American Government would require such a thing is not fully explained nor is it clarified why it would decimate its own troops in the midst of a conflict it was determined to win - and the subsequent infection of troops with Marburg was what gave rise to Gulf War Syndrome, this is confirmed when it is noted the agent the warhead delivered was microplasma flavivirus, infamous in Gulf War Syndrome lore. What becomes confusing is that despite Swan's personal belief as to what infected the troops the vaccination that he withholds from the infected Taylor Watts is the Marburg PrP Vaccination complete with Ouroborus label. Frank also confirms that the virus he believes Taylor has been exposed to is Marburg when he explains to Swan that what happened in the Gulf happened to his wife. I guess my 'prayers' that the Millennium Groups involvement, in the mannner depicted, would be a red herring were to go unanswered.

Ultimately I guess it matters not whether the group remained as mystical-templars or conspiring war mongers, I love the show in it's light and dark incarnations and can handle the concept that the group knowingly unleased Marburg, really I can, but what I cannot accept is that it did so to kill the psychic sisters.

Till then,

Eth

Swan says to Frank on the phone "who does what the government can't do?" He's refering to the Group. It is also implied, and confused even more, in "Matryoshka" that the MLM Group was created by members in the USA to do what they can't do legally.

I'm a huge season three fan but I too have to agree that the way the plot was done in "The Innocents/Exegesis" makes little to no sense. It's only possible saving grace, or way to make it make sense, lies in 512's conversation with Frank. She says they want the world to end, which I think may have been misunderstood since there is no other implication of the Group trying to end the world in the season. My feeling when it first aired was that they went back on this satement when all the fans got pissed or the Fox executives backed off. My other interpretation of 512's statement and vision she gives to Frank is that she is saying the men in the Group were created in a world, about 50 years ago (Matryoshka) when the end of the world became a real scenerio that had to be dealt with. 512 gives Frank a better vision of the future and how to assure it. They don't really want the world to end, they simply cannot undertand the world without it ending. 512 gives Frank peace by ridding him of this same mentality that he bagan to fall victim to in season two. In the recap section aired before "Exegesis" it shows the scene from "The Time is Now" where Frank tells Catherine he believes them and can't walk away until he knows what the future will bring. I remember this because it seemed to have little to do with the episode since it was obvious that Frank was not interested in staying with the Group. My feeling is this was to show us Frank's buying into the Group's mentality and the fear it brings. The voice over at the end and his statement to Emma were showing Frank's new mentality and attitude to the end of the world, which runs philosophically against the MLM Group's.

As far as the Marburg as a weapon, that made no sense at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is really GREAT! When I've got more time, I can soak in more of your posts. Thanks for this discussion....this is TIWWA at its best! (isn't that what you'd say, Graham?)

Edited by Raven Wolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the recap section aired before "Exegesis" it shows the scene from "The Time is Now" where Frank tells Catherine he believes them and can't walk away until he knows what the future will bring.

As a UK-based fan, I have never been able to see these "Previously" segments since the show only aired on subscription sattelite channels and the DVDs edited these sections out of such episodes as "Roosters", "The Time is Now", "Exegesis", and "Goodbye to All That" (did "The Beginning and the End" have one?).

I'd love to be able to view them somehow, if only that were possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to pass comment on something A Stranger wrote, namely "...They don't really want the world to end, they simply cannot understand the world without it ending..." which is just about the most profound and apt thing I have ever read with regards to the Millennium Group. Rapturous applause....I only wish I'd thought of it lol.

I am a huge fan of the Millennium group as an entity, its history and its structure and have always believed that any problem with our understanding of the Millennium Group finds it's origins in Owls and Roosters. Depicting the Millennium Group as holding two opposing doctrines rendered the group ethos as a tidy, bilateral mythos. What the group unilaterally believed was that the world would end and to be reflective of the macrocosm it is my belief that under the umbrella of 'Millennium' there were numerous subdivisions regarding how the end would occur. Throughout the course of the three seasons numerous end-time theories were expressed as were aims and intentions and they were certainly more prolific than the two expressed in Owls and Roosters. Spatial rifts, cataclysmic comets, viral apocalypses, theological events, geographic and earth-bound disasters sat cleanly with desires to survive the end, cause the end and act as angels to mankind, guiding us all through to the other side and it was always clear to me that the group was a diverse, multi-faceted, evolving organism responding to new theological, sociological and scientific changes. In our haste, and need, to understand the group it is easy to become confused by all these strange and incongruent ideas that don't fit into the neat categories expressed in Owls and Roosters but to understand Millennnium I believe we should allow it to be like any conglomerate - formed of many components, often wildly different, that have a commonality that binds them all together. I have always asserted that Owls and Roosters does not depict a war between the only factions of the group - simply two of them. I have always asserted that there is ample evidence for the activities of others whose modus operandi was in direct contrast to the reference points we were given in order understand the nature of the two factions. I am sure that in actuality there were numerous factions, scattered pockets of differing aims and beliefs constantly vying for supremacy and this could explain why the mood and nature of the group was to change from time to time. Whilst I regret the group becoming the villain of the piece, I was more content when their sinister side was more tantalising and obscure, I assume that in the flux and uncertainty of the times beyond the death of the old man that a more malign and political faction assumed control to guide us through the times of season three.

Ultimately, in my view, the beauty of Season Three is watching Frank let the layers of the group fall away one by one, to watch him speak of Peter Watt's redemption in Bardo Thodol is soul food and to see him ultimately reject Emma Hollis had me cheering at the screen and to see him have only Jordan and want nothing else was the end he always deserved to have. And whilst there is little group commentary in Season Three is nice to see from A Stranger's post that if you look hard enough you can find some answers to the riddle of the group. I shall it all again theough different eyes.

Till then,

Eth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" The year of the great seventh number accomplished, it will appear at the time of the games of slaughter. Not far from the age of the great millennium, when the dead will rise from thier graves." The seven signs according to nostrodamus were to indicate the arrival of the millennium, the seventh was plague-the marlburg virus. Are the group following nostrodamus' prophecies in the hope that they will achieve the peace and harmony he predicts, or does he predict something else that the public od not know, something kept secret from us, that only they know? In the vague and uninspiring episode from the x-files "MILLENNIUM" we see 4 members of the group resurrected from thier graves, are these meant to be the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse? what does this hope to achieve, what are thier intentions, and why did one member want frank to be one of these undead? perhaps the group do not want to end the word physically, but want to end the evil, they want a world of peace, or is thier wanting much darker and deeper than we can imagine, well it must be worth something as they were willing to sacrifice thier families in the marlburg virus outbreak, so just what is it? If they can predict earthquakes, just as peter watts did in one of the season 2 episodes, then they can see whta the future is like and doing all these actions and events to prevent the fututre they see from happening.

Edited by Lara Means

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my eyes, the opener to Season three made absolutely no sense at all. I understand that the new producers had to take the show in a new direction, but the psychic sisters can, in no way, tie into the Marburg virus. It simply makes no sense at all.

A more believable explanation of the Virus, and the goals of the group itself would be that the group unleashed the plague because they were scared that it would not happen naturally. In the teaser to "The Beginning and the End" we see that there is a small outbreak of the virus in Wisconsin in 1986. Now, it would be entirely plausible that the group, who knew about the event, was shocked as a whole when the virus disappeared with no more infections.

Now, would it not be possible for the group to genetically engineer the virus? Of course it would, and between 1986 and 1998 would be about the right time frame for doing advanced biological studies and experimentation to add RNA to prions, ensuring that the virus would not simply disappear.

In my opinion, the group did this because they were trying to force the end of the world. With the disappearance of the virus in Wisconsin in 1986, the group members began to worry that their theological and prophetical beliefs would not come true, that the time for the end had come, and for some reason, had not happened. So they tried to force the end themselves.

As for how this ties into psychic sisters, I have no idea, but I think it was simply a case of the writers realizing that they had to have the season two finale make sense, and they tried the best they could, even if they failed.

Edited by Montag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.