Lucy= Lillith?

[Guest Sinestro]

Does anyone else see any corollations between the myth of Adam's first wife, Lillith and Lucy Butler?

Some beliefs hold her (Lillith) as a night demon who murders mothers and their unborn children.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

if i remember right, according to jewish lore Lillith was considered a Succubus. I do agree about a connection between Lucy Butler and lilith

[Raven Wolf]

Cool! Joe, though I've heard of Lilith, I had not heard what you just said about her being considered a Succubus. (CC must have had a real thing for the Succubuss. He based The X Files, "Avatar" on that.)

Now THIS is the kind of MM discussion I just eat up!

[Guest Allen]

That's exactlly the feeling she always left me with. The only time she didn't fit into that mold was on Saturn Dreaming of Mercury and on that one I'm still a little confused on why the boy turned into Lucy other than the fact they were both evil. It just never really fit but every other episode she was the perfect Lillith in my opinion.

[Guest 1428]

Interesting point indeed. Although the connection isn't crystal-clear, one can see some ressemblances for sure.

[Guest squire]

Thank you for the added topic of "lilith"

I'm using small case for a reason...and hopefully not for an end!

I always imgined lilith as sammael's companion... a sort of companion of the darkness.

I've always Imagined lilith as the White Horse...whereupon the white night would proclame his blasphome!...and then all 'hell' would break loose!

And I?...I would take the ussumption of the templars...

Cross armed in sublucation and...in peace!

Kind Regards.

Squire

[Guest Sheree Dawn]

Thank you for the added topic of "lilith"

I'm using small case for a reason...and hopefully not for an end!

I always imgined lilith as sammael's companion... a sort of companion of the darkness.

I've always Imagined lilith as the White Horse...whereupon the white night would proclame his blasphome!...and then all 'hell' would break loose!

And I?...I would take the ussumption of the templars...

Cross armed in sublucation and...in peace!

Kind Regards.

Squire

Lillith was also reputed to be the mother of vampires, of which Cain became one of. Crap, can't remember the book I read that it, but it was eerily fascinating.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

After re-reading this old thread i am beginning to understand why Lillith Fair was finally cancelled

[ethsnafu]

Dark is she, but brilliant! Black are her wings, black on black! Her lips are red as rose, kissing all of the Universe! She is Lilith, who leadeth forth the hordes of the Abyss, and leadeth man to liberation! She is the irresistible fulfiller of all lust, seer of desire. First of all women was she - Lilith, not Eve was the first!

The correspondences between the countless conceptual models of Lillith and our very own Lucy Butler is quite staggering to be honest. As well as being visualized as the archetypal raven-haired and ruby-lipped virago she was attributed with all manner of characteristics that are seemingly evident in Lucy. She was a succubus, the personification of the feminine erotic, the first to denounce male superiority and is often considered androgynous and able to appear as man or as women. The most startlingly obvious correlation to my mind is the countless associations with pregnancy, children, child birth and miscarriage which are prominent features of the Lucy Butler Trilogy in Millennium. I also have a fondness for the legend that Lillith would not succumb to lie beneath a man during sexual intercourse and whether this be by design or by accident this was pretty much how her violation of Frank Black occurs. I do not think that, especially in the case of Season One, all these correlations were necessarily intentional as the show's mysticism, where present, was confined to a fairy orthodox model of Judeo-Christian Theology and wasn't venturing as far as Kabbalah and Occultism until the latter end of Season Two. If you take Lucy and compare her with numerous depictions of the dark-feminine i.e. Morrigan, Oya, Ala, Kali, Hel and so on and so forth she shares numerous characteristics with all of them though I would only ever tentatively consider them inspirational. If you yourself envisage the idea of an evil woman and what an evil woman would do it's fairly near to Lucy's depiction and doesn't require any knee deep scholarship in the ancient Goddess traditions.

I know it might sound a tad controversial but raven-haired temptress, desired by men, hated by women etc. isn't all that original and has been a staple of storytelling since such the art form began. You can find shades of Lucy Butler in Snow White and its Evil Queen though I wouldn't necessarily consider it an influence.

Best wishes and no nightmares,

Eth x

[Photeinos]

Dark is she, but brilliant! Black are her wings, black on black! Her lips are red as rose, kissing all of the Universe! She is Lilith, who leadeth forth the hordes of the Abyss, and leadeth man to liberation! She is the irresistible fulfiller of all lust, seer of desire. First of all women was she - Lilith, not Eve was the first!

The correspondences between the countless conceptual models of Lillith and our very own Lucy Butler is quite staggering to be honest. As well as being visualized as the archetypal raven-haired and ruby-lipped virago she was attributed with all manner of characteristics that are seemingly evident in Lucy. She was a succubus, the personification of the feminine erotic, the first to denounce male superiority and is often considered androgynous and able to appear as man or as women. The most startlingly obvious correlation to my mind is the countless associations with pregnancy, children, child birth and miscarriage which are prominent features of the Lucy Butler Trilogy in Millennium. I also have a fondness for the legend that Lillith would not succumb to lie beneath a man during sexual intercourse and whether this be by design or by accident this was pretty much how her violation of Frank Black occurs. I do not think that, especially in the case of Season One, all these correlations were necessarily intentional as the show's mysticism, where present, was confined to a fairy orthodox model of Judeo-Christian Theology and wasn't venturing as far as Kabbalah and Occultism until the latter end of Season Two. If you take Lucy and compare her with numerous depictions of the dark-feminine i.e. Morrigan, Oya, Ala, Kali, Hel and so on and so forth she shares numerous characteristics with all of them though I would only ever tentatively consider them inspirational. If you yourself envisage the idea of an evil woman and what an evil woman would do it's fairly near to Lucy's depiction and doesn't require any knee deep scholarship in the ancient Goddess traditions.

I know it might sound a tad controversial but raven-haired temptress, desired by men, hated by women etc. isn't all that original and has been a staple of storytelling since such the art form began. You can find shades of Lucy Butler in Snow White and its Evil Queen though I wouldn't necessarily consider it an influence.

Best wishes and no nightmares,

Eth x

Very well put. Yet I would venture to say that there more behind the Lucy/Lillith - though I'm not sure what/whom that is.